Vaccines: a future blight in our history

#BestBubby

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 12:36 pm

amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:

Do you know why government scientists can't talk? We can't talk to anti-vaccination groups because NOTHING we say actually matters. It's a waste of our time. We are overloaded and only care about public health, just one less death, a little less suffering. We have to weigh the best use of time. Regarding most of these posts, many of us know studies that demonstrate many arguments. No one cares so we stay in our offices and labs working to make a real difference, you know saving lives.

On one hand, people call us evil and on the other hand demand data from us. It's like we are vampires trying to syphon blood from you. Scientists are people. After you're done your 10 years plus of schooling and then work in public health, we can have a more meaningful discussion. Until then, I stay out of these threads.

Hotpink, the study that PROVED that smoking causes cancer and other diseases ws
the Smoker vs Non-Smoker Studies - that ended the DENIALS of the Tobacco Industry with their HIRED scientists denying smoking causes cancer!

Hotpink, please explain why the government and pharmaceutical industry refuses to
do the MOST VALID STUDY that would END THE DEBATE: Do Vaccines cause Autism
and other chronic diseases (diabetes, epilepsy, ADHD, Learning disabilities, Allergies, Asthma, Eczema) a VAX VS UNVAX STUDY???

Hotpink, there is an EPIDEMIC of CHRONIC SICKNESS in children - and
government scientists are "too busy" to do a Vax vs UnVax Study?????

#BestBubby

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 12:42 pm

southernbubby wrote:

You would need a bigger demand for a government funded study. Currently, as Best Bubby has stated, non-vaccinated school children are 2% of the school-aged population. Hundreds of protesters representing 14,000 students in NJ with REs drowned out an attempt in Trenton to repeal REs but most people are complacent. They may not be strongly pro-vaccine; they just don't care.
Because much of the anti-vax propaganda aimed at gaining followers was easily disproven, such as claiming that vaccines still contained Mercury and thimersol (removed years ago from most vaccines), it failed to galvanize the masses to demand a study comparing the health of children who are not vaccinated with those who are.
There are ethical issues with such a study; namely assuring that study participants abstain from vaccines for the duration of the study but even those of us who don't want to return to the days of mass epidemics should be interested in what such a study would show.

Flu vaccines may still contain thimerosal and at exact same time that thimerosal was removed from vaccines, the CDC started recommending Flu vaccines for pregnant women (!) and babies/children.

Even Vaccines that are labeled "thimerosal free" are ALLOWED to contain
"trace amounts" of thimerosal. And since multiple vaccines are given at ONE TIME
those "trace amounts" add up - especially in combination with aluminum.

There are NO ETHICAL issues with doing a RETROSPECTIVE study on the health
of 100% unvaccinated children compared to the vaccinated population.

amother

Hotpink

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 1:02 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

This is why we cannot have a civil discussion, you keep yelling. I'm a person with a mind, body, heart, and soul. I don't appreciate being abused by someone with an agenda. But you seem so caught up in your arguments to realize that these are not good middos. Yes, every death in my area of public health haunts me and I will do anything moral and practical to prevent it. And no, I don't have time. I'm really busy and don't have any more time after my lunch break.

It would be a waste of time to paste in the study that demonstrates this because you will just refute it. Also science never proves anything. It's a limitation of scientific study. But your response will be, if science is limited and can't prove anything then why should I inject myself. Don't worry, I got both sides of this debate.

gold21

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 1:02 pm

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

You are helping best bubby prove her point. Maybe it skyrocketed due to other factors. Maybe. Maybe not. We don't know because the government refuses to do the necessary studies! Without proof that vaccines didn't cause any of it, why should I accept the safety claim as fact?

Am I helping her prove her point or am I agreeing that studies are always an important part of making a case for or against something?

I'm all for further studies from the CDC. Bring it on.

And on the flip side, why should I accept any of the claims Best Bubby is making as fact (especially seeing as we have already disproved some of those claims on this thread)?

If you only see this as a one way issue, that's on you. It's a two way street. The issue of providing evidence goes both ways.

Stating "an increase in vaccines caused an increase in cases of diabetes" without evidence to back it up.... Not gonna fly.

gold21

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 1:15 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Thank you, Orange.

I gave SCIENTIFIC reasons why diabetes is LIKELY caused by vaccines:

a. Diabetes is listed on VACCINE INSERTS as a reported adverse effect!

b. Diabetes in children skyrocketed after 1990 when CDC QUADRUPLED the Vaccine Schedule

c. Diabetes type 1 is an AUTO-IMMUNE Disease and vaccines are DESIGNED to
HYPER-STIMULATE the IMMUNE SYSTEM. Gee, what could go wrong?

Vaccines are associated with Auto-Immune diseases such as allergies, asthma, diabetes, Guillam-Barre-Syndrome, Arthritis - all of which is listed on vaccine inserts!

Of course there is only ONE WAY to PROVE that vaccines cause Diabetes and a dozen other diseases - A VAX VS UNVAX STUDY - which the government refuses to do.

Sure, you're WELCOME to have your suspicions about the links between vaccines and diabetes. Like I said, I would CERTAINLY support further studies on the issue.

I have all kinds of suspicions MYSELF about all sorts of things.

But to state as fact, WITHOUT evidence.... That seems to be QUITE a CONTRADICTION to the basic tenets of your entire anti-vaxx belief system.

You simply cannot have it both ways. And THAT is a fact.

Last edited by gold21 on Tue, Dec 17 2019, 1:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

#BestBubby

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 1:17 pm

amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:

Sorry. This is not a Logical answer why Government won't do a
Vax vs UnVax Study.

Government does Other studies, so why not Vax vs UnVax Study?

gold21

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 1:20 pm

I am glad to hear that you are vaccinated for polio.

However, you clearly stated that you no longer support the polio vaccine.

Instead, you support anti vaxxers relying on the herd immunity of the zombies & slaves who did vaccinate (who they see as uneducated & uninformed, but who generously provide them with herd immunity) as their protection from polio.

gold21

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 1:22 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Sorry. This is not a Logical answer why Government won't do a
Vax vs UnVax Study.

Government does Other studies, so why not Vax vs UnVax Study?

I'm ALL for it.
Bring on the VAX vs ANTI-VAXX study.
Most of us here would SUPPORT further studies on this issue.

I don't think you need to continuously ARGUE that point, as we're on the same page.

Not sure why you're OBSESSING over it.

#BestBubby

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 1:26 pm

gold21 wrote:

Please show me where I stated it is a FACT that vaccines cause diabetes.

This is what I ACTUALLY stated:

"I gave SCIENTIFIC reasons why diabetes is LIKELY caused by vaccines"

You also lie that I gave NO EVIDENCE on why it is likely vaccines cause diabetes:

Here it is the EVIDENCE I gave AGAIN:

a. Diabetes is listed as a reported adverse event on VACCINE INSERTS.

b. Diabetes in children skyrocketed after the CDC QUADRUPLED the CDC schedule in 1990.

c. Diabetes is an Auto-Immune Disease and Vaccines are designed to HYPER-STIMULATE the IMMUNE SYSTEM.

Vaccines are associated with many Auto-Immune diseases like: Diabetes, allergies,
asthma, eczema, arthritis - all of which is listed on VACCINE INSERTS!

When you have to lie about what I said to attack my "anti-vax" belief system,
you lose the debate.

amother

Saddlebrown

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 1:26 pm

gold21 wrote:

(its her proof of corruption and the evil hand of BIG PHARMA)

gold21

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 1:26 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Folks, I am not responding to Saddle Brown anymore because she lies.

Anyone who DENIES that the CDC refuses to do a Vax vs UnVax Study is so
dishonest there is no point.

Not to be rude...

But you shared a FEW pieces of information on these threads that were DISPROVEN. (In example, the NUMBER of babies that were affected with measles, which you listed as 2.). Nobody out & out called YOU a LIAR. We played NICE.

#BestBubby

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 1:28 pm

gold21 wrote:

Again, you lie.

I NEVER said "an increase in vaccines caused an increase in cases of diabetes"

and the fact that you MADE UP a QUOTE - is really disgraceful.

And I gave lots of EVIDENCE on why it is LIKELY (what I actually said) that vaccines
cause diabetes - see my post above.

gold21

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 1:28 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

You may have your SUSPICIONS and that's OKAY.
I support critical thinking skills.

However, you DID state at one point on either this thread or the other one I've been posting on, that vaccines CAUSED a whole host of issues, from autism to diabetes to ADHD. Feel free to search and find the post.

Who's lying now.... Cool

#BestBubby

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 1:29 pm

gold21 wrote:

And if you look at my Posts you will see that I immediately wrote that I was INCORRECT.

That is the difference between making an HONEST mistake and being a Liar.

gold21

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 1:30 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

No, that is NOT what you said at all.

Read this thread back.

Now, we don't want to name-call each other and label each other as liars, do we?

#BestBubby

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 1:31 pm

gold21 wrote:

YOU ARE. Feel free to find such a post - I'll wait.

I NEVER say that vaccines cause xyz. I only point out that after the Vaccine Schedule was QUADRUPLED in 1990, all these diseases began to skyrocket.

gold21

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 1:32 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

And if you look at my Posts you will see that I immediately wrote that I was INCORRECT.

That is the difference between making an HONEST mistake and being a Liar.

Ah!
Of course.

Well, that makes sense. I don't recall where you admitted to being incorrect. I recall you asking where the data that was shared that countered your data, was culled from. If you find the post where you stated that you are incorrect, can you share which page it was on? I believe what you're saying. Just don't remember seeing it. Then again, I'll admit to skimming this thread at times. So it's certainly plausible.

But, if you did own up to your mistake, three cheers for you! Then just an honest mistake on my part. See, I'm owning up to it. That's the difference between an honest mistake and being a liar. Cool

#BestBubby

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 1:43 pm

gold21 wrote:

Here is my quote from page 13 to Nurse K:

You are correct - there were 101 babies under a year who got measles, not
2 like I stated.

On pages 15 and 16 you can see what I wrote about diabetes - and I NEVER stated
that is a FACT that vaccines cause diabetes. And I DID give evidence why it is
LIKELY that vaccines cause diabetes.

So are you going to admit that I NEVER stated that Vaccines Cause Diabetes or
any other disease. And I did give EVIDENCE why vaccines are a LIKELY Cause
of diabetes, autism and other diseases - although I never stated this was proven.

That is why I always demand a vax vs unvax study. That is the ONLY way to PROVE
that Vaccines cause autism, diabetes and many other sicknesses.

gold21

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 1:47 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

Nurse K, what the pharmaceutical industry is really afraid of is people losing their fear of measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox. In 1960s NOBODY was afraid of
measles - this is government manufactured hysteria!

If people started getting measles, mumps, rubella and chicken pox - nobody would be afraid because 99.9999999999999% would recover completely without any medical interventions.

If people stopped vaccinating the rates of autism, adhd, learning disabilities,
epilepsy, diabetes, allergies, asthma would PLUMMET. And people would notice!

The pharmaceutical industry cannot allow this to happen. Therefore Vaccination MUST be forced on EVERYONE so no one can realize the massive injuries that
vaccination is causing. Sick Children is the new "normal" - and we are lied to that
it was always normal that so many children are sick.

Since nobody here is lying..

HERE YA GO!

I pulled the above post up, for your convenience. It's from page 13? or 14? Somewhere about there.

"99.9999999999999 percent".

That number has been DISPROVEN already on this thread. So why did you list that number as FACT? Without evidence of any kind?

"IF PEOPLE STOPPED VACCINATING, THE RATES OF...... WOULD PLUMMET."

You stated this as FACT... You could have written "would LIKELY PLUMMET" or I SUSPECT it would PLUMMET" but you didn't. You listed it as fact. Without supporting evidence.

Now, now.

Hmmm.

Last edited by gold21 on Tue, Dec 17 2019, 2:45 pm; edited 6 times in total

southernbubby

Tue, Dec 17 2019, 1:47 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

So let's do a retrospective study where we take 10K healthy kids who were vaccinated and compare them to 10K sickly kids who were not and see who accepts the study.