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Corruption in NYS repeal of RE
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amother




OP
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 12:52 am
https://www.facebook.com/steph.....0Njk/
Listen to this sham of a hearing. The rabbis were cut short while the white coated doctors got all the time they requested.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 12:53 am
amother [ Rose ] wrote:
Red flag for what?

That the value of their product is inferior.
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amother




Rose
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 12:54 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
That the value of their product is inferior.


Whose product? What product?
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amother




Forestgreen
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 6:25 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Catholics are against abortion and thus against vaccines with aborted fetal tissue.

The justification sounds legally precedented and apparently, at least so far, it has withstood challenges both in CA and in NY. As such, why the need to re-vote in the health committe? Wouldn't they all have agreed with the above? Why the need to keep removing judges who are hearing these cases?


https://www.immunize.org/talki.....t.htm

The official position of the Vatican is to make known you have an issue with the vaccine due to the aborted fetuses amd look for an alternative without such cells but to ultimately still administer the vaccine, especially if not doing so would result in infectious diseases. The Vatican considers diseases like pertussis, measles and rubella to be serious diseases that should be immunized against. The Vatican does not indicate people should withhold a vaccine if it is the only one available based on their morals. Catholics listen and answer to the Vatican.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 7:46 am
amother [ Rose ] wrote:
Whose product? What product?

Government's product = mandated vaccine schedule
When one's product has intrinsic value, it can be sold to the public based on its value. Once it needs to be rammed down people's throats against their will, there's either something wrong with our government or with the product. (I felt the same way about universal healthcare, BTW.)

Government should not be my parents forcing me to do stuff against my will for my own good. Government should be representing the people and what they want. How is it ok to force legistlation that clearly wouldn't pass without the force? What is wrong with the law that makes it require backhanded behavior in order for it to pass.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 7:50 am
amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:
https://www.immunize.org/talking-about-vaccines/vaticandocument.htm

The official position of the Vatican is to make known you have an issue with the vaccine due to the aborted fetuses amd look for an alternative without such cells but to ultimately still administer the vaccine, especially if not doing so would result in infectious diseases. The Vatican considers diseases like pertussis, measles and rubella to be serious diseases that should be immunized against. The Vatican does not indicate people should withhold a vaccine if it is the only one available based on their morals. Catholics listen and answer to the Vatican.


I'm not a Catholic, but it's clear that aborted fetal cells in the vaccine are problematic according their religion. This seems like a "psak" from their highest authority giving them a "heter" that if there's no other option, then these vaccines should be used, but a devout Catholic will still have a religious objection.
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amother




Forestgreen
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 8:06 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I'm not a Catholic, but it's clear that aborted fetal cells in the vaccine are problematic according their religion. This seems like a "psak" from their highest authority giving them a "heter" that if there's no other option, then these vaccines should be used, but a devout Catholic will still have a religious objection.


Yes but they still would not refuse the vaccine if nothing else is available.
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 8:23 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Government's product = mandated vaccine schedule
When one's product has intrinsic value, it can be sold to the public based on its value. Once it needs to be rammed down people's throats against their will, there's either something wrong with our government or with the product. (I felt the same way about universal healthcare, BTW.)

Government should not be my parents forcing me to do stuff against my will for my own good. Government should be representing the people and what they want. How is it ok to force legistlation that clearly wouldn't pass without the force? What is wrong with the law that makes it require backhanded behavior in order for it to pass.


The government is representing the people, as most people do want vaccine laws in place.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 8:30 am
gold21 wrote:
The government is representing the people, as most people do want vaccine laws in place.

There are vaccine laws. The question here is if religious exemptions should be allowed. From the amount of corruption and threats/bribes needed to pass these bills in both NY and NJ, it is clear to me that most people including pro-vaxxers do want to allow for religious liberties one way or another and they are uncomfortable with government infringing on religious rights. Did you watch any of the clips I posted? You'll hear the concerns raised by many state senators, and they are a reflection of most people's concerns. The people VOTED them in and they get paid to represent them.
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 8:33 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
There are vaccine laws. The question here is if religious exemptions should be allowed. From the amount of corruption and threats/bribes needed to pass these bills in both NY and NJ, it is clear to me that most people including pro-vaxxers do want to allow for religious liberties one way or another and they are uncomfortable with government infringing on religious rights. Did you watch any of the clips I posted? You'll hear the concerns raised by many state senators, and they are a reflection of most people's concerns. The people VOTED them in and they get paid to represent them.


I'm not in favor of religious exemptions, as I don't see vaccinations as a religious issue.

I don't recall learning about vaccinations in Halacha class. It's not covered in Gemara. Or anywhere in Tanach.

"V'nishmartem Me'od L'nafshosaichem" is a loose term which basically means "Guard your health". Very generic and nonspecific.

I am only in favor of medical exemptions.

Many many people agree with me, whether or not they will say so under their screen name.

The government is representing the people.

I am not uncomfortable with religious exemptions being removed, as you and I both know it's not a religious issue. I'm sorry if that offends you.

As for medical exemptions, I'm all for it. Of course. Vaccines are a medical issue, not a religious one.


Last edited by gold21 on Fri, Dec 13 2019, 8:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother




OP
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 8:40 am
gold21 wrote:
I'm not in favor of religious exemptions, as I don't see vaccinations as a religious issue.

I don't recall learning about vaccinations in Halacha class.

I am only in favor of medical exemptions.

Many many people agree with me, whether or not they will say so under their screen name.

The government is representing the people.

You and the many people who won't post under their screen name voted for their state senators and can reach out to them with their support of the bill as can anyone who opposes this bill. But that's not what happened here.

I'm wondering if you watched the clips because the corruption is pretty darn obvious, and that's the aspect that is bothering me.
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 8:42 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
You and the many people who won't post under their screen name voted for their state senators and can reach out to them with their support of the bill as can anyone who opposes this bill. But that's not what happened here.

I'm wondering if you watched the clips because the corruption is pretty darn obvious, and that's the aspect that is bothering me.


No, the first clip I clicked on said "Oops, something went wrong here" and I wasn't able to access it.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 8:54 am
gold21 wrote:
No, the first clip I clicked on said "Oops, something went wrong here" and I wasn't able to access it.

Ok, I changed the URL code, it should be good now.

But in the meantime, this is in the news from NJ.com:
Quote:
Three of the Democrats who voted yes substituted permanent health committee members, raising questions among opponents that they were pulling strings to guarantee the controversial bill’s passage.
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amother




Rose
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 9:35 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Government's product = mandated vaccine schedule
When one's product has intrinsic value, it can be sold to the public based on its value. Once it needs to be rammed down people's throats against their will, there's either something wrong with our government or with the product. (I felt the same way about universal healthcare, BTW.)

Government should not be my parents forcing me to do stuff against my will for my own good. Government should be representing the people and what they want. How is it ok to force legistlation that clearly wouldn't pass without the force? What is wrong with the law that makes it require backhanded behavior in order for it to pass.


A mandated vaccine schedule isn’t a product. It’s a philosophy.
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amother




Rose
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 9:44 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
You and the many people who won't post under their screen name voted for their state senators and can reach out to them with their support of the bill as can anyone who opposes this bill. But that's not what happened here.

I'm wondering if you watched the clips because the corruption is pretty darn obvious, and that's the aspect that is bothering me.


Ok. This is heavy politics. It has no bearing on the actual vaccines.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 9:53 am
amother [ Rose ] wrote:
A mandated vaccine schedule isn’t a product. It’s a philosophy.

Well that's what I'm questioning. If force and/or corruption is needed to ensure a full vaccine schedule, if the benefits of the vaccine schedule are not so obviously apparent that the law wouldn't pass on its own merit, then maybe it's not so amazing. Maybe we should re-evaluate the schedule and what's causing such resistance. Following the political events made me much more look into the vaccine debate. I'm not homeschooling, so there's really no practical difference for me personally, but generally as a philosophy, I became more aware of the risks and more skeptical of everyone claiming this is "for my own good."
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amother




OP
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 9:54 am
amother [ Rose ] wrote:
Ok. This is heavy politics. It has no bearing on the actual vaccines.

Right. Why are some politicians so invested?
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amother




Seafoam
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 10:46 am
Op, I'm with you, like I said my NJ mom groups are blowing up.

Btw - most of them vax but they went in person to oppose bc they want to still have ability to refuse flu shot and HPV and the fact that soon kids will be able to get it in school without parents consent or knowledge.
It's not just RE that's being removed, everything is being tightened and the definition of medical exemption is changing.
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amother




Seashell
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 1:06 pm
The forceful laws were a huge red flag to me. I did NOT start questioning vaccines until flu shot became mandated for my preschooler about 7 years ago when he had just recovered from MRSA, and had bad eczema. I discussed it with my pediatrician and she told me I had nothing to worry about as the law was being repealed. I told her my concerns were becoming that I have NO choice and it's all vaccines or none. She agreed with me and had no answer other than to delay. Flu shot was yearly and there was no way to "delay".
I started looking more into vaccines and found that many aspects do indeed have conflicts with my views of Judiasm and what is beneficial for my family and what is forced by govt.
All or nothing and corruption with the lawsuits is still a red flag for me.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Dec 13 2019, 1:14 pm
I am wondering why there is total silence about this in the frum print media. There is more concern about carpool tolls on the GW.
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