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Forum -> Children's Health -> Vaccinations
Why are there so many frum anti-vaxxers?
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amother
Olive


 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 12:51 am
amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:
Older people dont contract shingles only because the virus is dormant . They can in fact contract it from others . The varicella virus is in fact contagious.


I don't know where you're getting that info from. You cannot get shingles from someone with chicken pox. And if an elderly person never had chicken pox, being exposed to it will only cause chicken pox, not shingles.
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amother
Sapphire


 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 12:51 am
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
Sure. Because the minute she stopped vaxxing, her kids suddenly started carrying all kinds of disease in their pockets. Run for your life! Rolling Eyes


When s
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amother
Jetblack


 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 12:52 am
amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:
SO BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE DONT DEVELOP IMMUNITY FROM VACCINES WE SHOULD JUST NOT ADMINISTER THE VACCINES AT ALL AND LET EVERYONE CATCH DEADLY DISEASES? AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHY WE NEED TO VACCINATE TO PROTECT THE SMALL POCKETS OF PEOPLE THAT AREN'T IMMUNED . ESPECIALLY THE ELDERLY, BABIES AND SICK


THIS is what I can't understand. Start a public health campaign for everyone to get their titers checked. Then you'll know quickly if you're immune or not, and if not, just get the shots. How does saying that the shots aren't perfect because some people lose immunity, mean that it's preferable not to bother with anyone getting vaccinated?

Response: Nowadays we have better hygiene and antibiotics so measles outbreaks wouldn't happen here. You can't compare to third world countries.

Ok, then how did the measles outbreak happen in Israel? How is it even a question as to whether outbreaks are caused by non vaccinated people?? And how is it that something that seems so clear-cut black and white to some of us, isn't?? --Note that arguing that there are OTHER dangers to the measles vaccine is fine, but that's not what the anti-vaxers are saying!
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amother
Lime


 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 12:55 am
I didnt read any comments. My answer is because we are critical thinkers Smile
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amother
Olive


 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 1:01 am
amother [ Plum ] wrote:
I meant the general provax population who claim that all antivaxxers are ignorant morons with no scientific knowledge. I didn't mean you specifically.


Understood. But I do think both sides of the aisles cherry-pick info to suit their opinions, instead of basing their opinion off ALL the info currently available.

I particular love how everyone is now jumping on the genetic angle of vaccines, when the info is in the infancy stage. There's currently not much to go on if specific individuals are more susceptible to vaccine components or if specific individuals are more susceptible to diseases, based solely on their genome. Yet people are choosing sides, and even more worrisome, taking action without truly knowing what the outcome of these studies will be.

And what will happen if they're on the wrong side of the debate? How many people will needlessly suffer or ch"v die in the future because of it? Why take the more dangerous road instead of the lesser one? The lesser one being that everyone, excluding those with critical reactions, is vaccinated. There is no road without any complications, so that's not a consideration.

And that's where nishmartem Me'od nafshosaychem comes in. We can only protect ourselves with the info that Hashem allows us to have. The current knowledge that He has granted us iwith is the accepted medical knowledge, with substantial evidence to it. And that is that vaccines protects the greater society. So it is our obligation to go down that route, until Hashem sends us other info.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 5:31 am
On contrary they're very obsessed by "the ped"
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amother
Brunette


 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 5:35 am
lack of education and trust in some holistic practitioner that provides them some "scientific " explanation.
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amother
Brunette


 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 5:37 am
I still maintain it needs ONE bout of obvious polio R"L and the conversation will be over.
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 7:14 am
dancingqueen wrote:
I’m very curious about this phenomenon. I didn’t know there were so many until the recent outbreaks in frum communities and then seeing the multitude of anti-vaxxer posts. (Which are almost all amother).

Anyone have any thoughts as to why this is?

The more insular and chassidish you get, the more anti vaxxers there are
They don't read yeshivaworld and imamother and get all this slack. They simply get to follow their hearts and minds
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amother
Amber


 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 7:17 am
I do not think there are so many
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 7:17 am
amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:
Its hard to tell if there's a lot or not. It seems to me to be a very small percentage, except they're very vocal. They're not content to not give their kids shots, they want everyone else to understand their viewpoint and to agree with them and to pat their back admiring how intelligent they are. Since that isn't happening, they get even louder and contentious....

Sorry, antivaxxers, don't mean to bash anyone personally, that just the impression you've been giving the rest of us.....


As someone who has a number of immunocompromised immediate family members, I personally feel everyone should have the right to make their own informed decisions about whether to give vaccinations to their family - with one caveat - when theres an outbreak, KEEP YOUR CHILDREN HOME!!!! Not doing that and shoving it in the face of the DOH to show them up, has badly misfired unfortunately. Down the line, this will have repercussions and we will all pay the price.....



I disagree with the beginning of your post. Most Jewish non vaccinators were quiet until their kids were at risk of being kicked out of school.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 7:18 am
amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:
A close friend I've had for decades just became an anti-vaxer and I'm having a lot of trouble with it. None of the above apply to her. She's educated, worldly, and not at all sheltered. I can't understand it tbh, and it's really disturbing me.


A lot of anti-vaxers are influenced by Facebook and other social media but the question here was specifically why frum people rejected vaccines.
As was brought up in some news sources, because of large families, close living environments, and frequenting the same public places, a contagious disease spreads more readily than in suburban areas where people live apart.
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 7:19 am
amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:
Its hard to tell if there's a lot or not. It seems to me to be a very small percentage, except they're very vocal. They're not content to not give their kids shots, they want everyone else to understand their viewpoint and to agree with them and to pat their back admiring how intelligent they are. Since that isn't happening, they get even louder and contentious....

Sorry, antivaxxers, don't mean to bash anyone personally, that just the impression you've been giving the rest of us.....


As someone who has a number of immunocompromised immediate family members, I personally feel everyone should have the right to make their own informed decisions about whether to give vaccinations to their family - with one caveat - when theres an outbreak, KEEP YOUR CHILDREN HOME!!!! Not doing that and shoving it in the face of the DOH to show them up, has badly misfired unfortunately. Down the line, this will have repercussions and we will all pay the price.....

Perhaps you should take that up with the DOH and ask them to educate citizens about how to isolate themselves during an outbreak.
Like I've told a few times here that I saw a lady with a full measles rash in the grocery who was on pain meds but said it isn't measles cuz she is fully vaccinated
And then perhaps it would be a good idea not to implement rules like having 95% immune in order to go to school cuz the obvious reprecussison is that ppl will expose their children
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notshanarishona




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 7:22 am
My opinion wont be a popular one but I don't think the anti vaxers (except those with medical reasons) are truly frum. People who think they are starter than most of daas torah , don't care about their affects on others, and find their own rabbis based on what answer they want to find are not yiray shamayim.
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 7:22 am
amother [ Brunette ] wrote:
I still maintain it needs ONE bout of obvious polio R"L and the conversation will be over.

It seems. Like you believe that polio was erradicated by the vaccine
What about scarlet fever which they worked on a vaccine during the same time but couldn't create succesfully ?
Aren't you afraid of malaria too?
Typhoid?
Smallpox?
Someone just told me that she remembers the polio outbreak and her parents refusing the vaccine. So...
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 7:22 am
amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:
The more insular and chassidish you get, the more anti vaxxers there are
They don't read yeshivaworld and imamother and get all this slack. They simply get to follow their hearts and minds


Really good point. Nobody is arguing with them. They managed in some cases to get their kids back in yeshivas by some type of subterfuge and in some cases, the yeshivas probably look the other way.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 7:26 am
notshanarishona wrote:
My opinion wont be a popular one but I don't think the anti vaxers (except those with medical reasons) are truly frum. People who think they are starter than most of daas torah , don't care about their affects on others, and find their own rabbis based on what answer they want to find are not yiray shamayim.


Most religious affiliation is how a person self-identifies. The biggest crook in town still views himself as frum, even if others question it.
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amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 7:27 am
amother [ Natural ] wrote:
Honestly the whole philosophy about humans being born with perfect bodies sounds like it's straight out of the Greek/Hellenistic worldview. I've been listening to Jewish history lectures. That's exactly what they espoused and it is antithetical to the Torah view.


And on the 8th day God realized he had made an entire species with an imperfect immune system.

So He created Merck and Pfizer.
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southernbubby




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 7:30 am
amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:
It seems. Like you believe that polio was erradicated by the vaccine
What about scarlet fever which they worked on a vaccine during the same time but couldn't create succesfully ?
Aren't you afraid of malaria too?
Typhoid?
Smallpox?
Someone just told me that she remembers the polio outbreak and her parents refusing the vaccine. So...


Some of the diseases that you mentioned are active in other countries and there are vaccines for them. Smallpox is BH obviously no longer a threat but mass vaccination did play a role in the elimination of it. The view that vaccines played no role is one of the reasons most people dismiss anti-vax logic.
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amother
Saddlebrown


 

Post Thu, Dec 12 2019, 7:31 am
They think they are smarter than Hashem.
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