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Do you buy pre-checked leafy green vegetables for salads?
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Do you buy pre-checked (or greenhouse grown) leafy green vegetables?
Yes  
 78%  [ 157 ]
No  
 21%  [ 42 ]
Total Votes : 199



amother
OP


 

Post Sat, Dec 14 2019, 9:06 pm
amother [ Denim ] wrote:
You can contact them yourself to confirm, but the k-orc is not an indication that the product has been checked for bugs. Not sure exactly what they're certifying, but it isn't bug free.


Heres the info, for anyone interested:



Orthodox Rabbinical Council of San Francisco
1851 Noriega Street, P.O. Box 22491, San Francisco, CA 94122
415-564-5665, Fax: 415-665-0394
Rabbi Jacob Traub, Chairman
Email: orcsf@aol.com
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amother
Mint


 

Post Sat, Dec 14 2019, 9:24 pm
I usually check my own. Sometimes I buy checked if I am not in mood of checking. What's the thrip cloth method?
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amother
Amber


 

Post Sat, Dec 14 2019, 9:38 pm
amother [ Denim ] wrote:
You can contact them yourself to confirm, but the k-orc is not an indication that the product has been checked for bugs. Not sure exactly what they're certifying, but it isn't bug free.


I actually did. I sent them an email asking if checking is required or if they can be eaten as they are. They responded:

"They are produced to be eaten as they are, thank you for inquiring"

That was September 2018.

I realize not everyone relies on this hechsher. So do as you wish. As OP said, she did not find bugs in organic girl.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Sat, Dec 14 2019, 9:52 pm
amother [ Amber ] wrote:
I actually did. I sent them an email asking if checking is required or if they can be eaten as they are. They responded:

"They are produced to be eaten as they are, thank you for inquiring"

That was September 2018.

I realize not everyone relies on this hechsher. So do as you wish. As OP said, she did not find bugs in organic girl.


The response does not tell you that there is a halachic basis for not checking, but ok. Afaik no orthodox kashrus agency will tell you to rely on this hechsher. I can't speak for organic girl in particular as I don't often buy that brand, but I have found definite bugs in leafy greens with the k orc on the label.
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amother
Amber


 

Post Sat, Dec 14 2019, 10:16 pm
amother [ Denim ] wrote:
The response does not tell you that there is a halachic basis for not checking, but ok. Afaik no orthodox kashrus agency will tell you to rely on this hechsher. I can't speak for organic girl in particular as I don't often buy that brand, but I have found definite bugs in leafy greens with the k orc on the label.


That response says that it halachically does not need to be checked. Just like bodek, positiv, and other brands don't need to be checked. It's no different.
Intetesting you should say that, because I asked a trustworthy orthodox rabbi when I moved here if I could rely on it. (back where I used to live I bought bodek, positive, etc.)
I'm aware this hechsher is not accepted by all. I asked my lor, you can ask yours.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sat, Dec 14 2019, 10:20 pm
amother [ Mint ] wrote:
I usually check my own. Sometimes I buy checked if I am not in mood of checking. What's the thrip cloth method?


You will need a large bowl, dish soap, 2 strainers, a thrip-cloth, and a light box.

Separate the leaves and place them into a bowl of water.
Put enough dish soap (a good choice would be Seventh Generation 0% fragrance) or kosher vegetable wash into the bowl until the water and leaves become somewhat slippery.
Agitate and soak the leaves in the soapy water for 1- 2 minutes.
Remove the leaves from the bowl, and discard the water.
Repeat steps 2-4. Alternatively (instead of repeating steps 2-4) one can wash each leaf under running water (both sides) and then place leaves into a new bowl of soapy water.
Remove leaves and pour the water through a thrip-cloth (fine silk cloth that can be purchased from the cRc) that is sandwiched between 2 strainers.
Check the cloth carefully on top of a light box or similar apparatus. If a bug is found, repeat. If no bugs are found, rinse and enjoy

https://www.crcweb.org/vegetab.....w.php
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amother
OP


 

Post Sat, Dec 14 2019, 10:33 pm
Rabbi Traub who gives the Hechsher to Organic girl answered me:


Dear Friend:Thank you for your inquiry regarding our supervision of various vegetable produce. The following is the protocol that is followed:The produce is rst inspected in the eld prior to harvesng. It is not unusual for the inspectors to rejecta eld if infestaons are found. Most people are not especially fond of nding bugs or insects in their salads and any such cri"ers are o# pu$ng for the majority of the consumers, Jew and non Jew alike. A)er accepng the eld for harvesng the produce is again checked, randomly, before entering the plant. A)er that, if found to be acceptable the vegetables enter the plant and are subjected to an agitated triple wash, one a)er the other.The veggies are then spun dry, set on an assembly line, and subjected to all sorts of highly technical electronic sorters that see any ‘foreign material’ and toss that out. As the produce is being packed it is constantly being pulled o# the line and Q/A personnel are examining the contents under high lighng. Ifany problem is found the kosher symbol is pulled from that batch.It is important to bear in mind that there is no Mashgiach T’midi. A Mashgiach is randomly on site and on hand but the majority of these various tests are done by in house personnel. If a full me Mashgiach were to be on hand then the price of a kosher salad would be prohibive. We have, over the course of years, established a Chazakah that the above process works. Thanks again for your interest

Rabbi Jacob Traub
Chairman, ORC

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It seems to me that any leafy greens youre paying less than $10 for, per bag (all "checked" leafy greens being sold today), is NOT checked more carefully than this, because the company wouldnt be making a penny of profit after paying their help. Who are we kidding?

My guess is that if Organic Girl products get a Hechsher we consider reliable (familiar sounding organizations and Rebbes), the price will double. It may pay for those who want to continue to use Organic Girl products, to check them themselves, because it seems its very rare to find them problematic.
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amother
Amber


 

Post Sun, Dec 15 2019, 7:21 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:


It seems to me that any leafy greens youre paying less than $10 for, per bag (all "checked" leafy greens being sold today), is NOT checked more carefully than this, because the company wouldnt be making a penny of profit after paying their help. Who are we kidding?

My guess is that if Organic Girl products get a Hechsher we consider reliable (familiar sounding organizations and Rebbes), the price will double. It may pay for those who want to continue to use Organic Girl products, to check them themselves, because it seems its very rare to find them problematic.


Do you know the process for positive or bodek? They also rely on chazaka checks, and do not check every leaf.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Sun, Dec 15 2019, 8:16 am
I'm pretty certain that halacha allows only a jew above bar/bad mitzvah to check for bugs. I'm not sure how they can halachically rely on non Jewish personnel in the company to do this for them.
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amother
Amber


 

Post Sun, Dec 15 2019, 8:47 am
amother [ Denim ] wrote:
I'm pretty certain that halacha allows only a jew above bar/bad mitzvah to check for bugs. I'm not sure how they can halachically rely on non Jewish personnel in the company to do this for them.

If you're not really sure, then you should ask and find out before you post. You can ask rabbi Taub himself, or choose a rabbi you rely on.

What is being relied on here is the washing process. There is a chazaka that a normal, not infested batch, comes out bug free from the process.
All hashgachos rely on this chazaka, because it is the halacha. That goes for mass production, and some caterers too.
If you don't want to rely on chazzaka checking, you need to check it yourself.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Sun, Dec 15 2019, 9:13 am
amother [ Amber ] wrote:
If you're not really sure, then you should ask and find out before you post. You can ask rabbi Taub himself, or choose a rabbi you rely on.

What is being relied on here is the washing process. There is a chazaka that a normal, not infested batch, comes out bug free from the process.
All hashgachos rely on this chazaka, because it is the halacha. That goes for mass production, and some caterers too.
If you don't want to rely on chazzaka checking, you need to check it yourself.


I have checked it out, and the only answer I've heard is that only a jew above bar/bas mitzvah can be responsible for checking for tolaim, whether relying on a chazaka or not. Of course there may be another opinion, which is why I wrote I'm pretty sure. But this is what I've been told by multiple sources. Not "it's better" but "it's required." I personally do all the checking myself. Hashgachos and caterers all have the mashgiach do the checking; they don't rely on non Jewish workers for this even though it doesn't seem to be that complicated.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Sun, Dec 15 2019, 9:23 am
In general organic tends to have more bugs because of the lack of pesticides. Dark leafy greens are difficult to check. I buy checked about half of the time realizing not every leaf is checked and I eat salads at restaurants with good hechsherim.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Dec 15 2019, 10:13 am
amother [ Denim ] wrote:
I have checked it out, and the only answer I've heard is that only a jew above bar/bas mitzvah can be responsible for checking for tolaim, whether relying on a chazaka or not.


Thats for the 1 case that gets checked of 20 (Im not sure of exact numbers), not for the 19 others that get labeled " no checking necessary", even if NO ONE looked at those 19 cases.

I clearly remember a very great Rov and Posek who isnt alive anymore (I wont mention names because I cant recall his exact words), speaking on the radio on this topic. He said women who check themselves are much more reliable, because if 20 huge cases of produce arrives at a distributor, and one case is thoroughky checked and is found to be bug free, ALL 20 cases are considered bug free. He said thats why women who check at home are much more reliable checkers. Some of the "checked vegetables" we buy, have never been looked at, at all.
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small bean




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Dec 15 2019, 10:21 am
I have found bugs in positive lettuce.

I alternate between the 2. I prefer checking on my own. I dont use any tools. I like to have checked lettuce for the kids who want to make salads for lunch, so I dont have to check in the morning.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Sun, Dec 15 2019, 10:24 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I clearly remember a very great Rov and Posek who isnt alive anymore (I wont mention names because I cant recall his exact words), speaking on the radio on this topic. He said women who check themselves are much more reliable, because if 20 huge cases of produce arrives at a distributor, and one case is thoroughky checked and is found to be bug free, ALL 20 cases are considered bug free. He said thats why women who check at home are much more reliable checkers. Some of the "checked vegetables" we buy, have never been looked at, at all.


Of course this is true. Another of the reasons I check myself at home, but I do rely on chazaka for restaurants. This has nothing to do with my post though, not sure why you quoted me.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Dec 15 2019, 12:36 pm
amother [ Denim ] wrote:
Of course this is true. Another of the reasons I check myself at home, but I do rely on chazaka for restaurants. This has nothing to do with my post though, not sure why you quoted me.


It was in response to you saying only a Jew can check.

Yes only a Jew can check, but that applies to the 1/20 they check, where 1 gets checked and all 20 get labeled (Im not sure of exact numbers) "no checking necessary", even tho no Jew or non Jew checked it.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Sun, Dec 15 2019, 1:17 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
It was in response to you saying only a Jew can check.

Yes only a Jew can check, but that applies to the 1/20 they check, where 1 gets checked and all 20 get labeled (Im not sure of exact numbers) "no checking necessary", even tho no Jew or non Jew checked it.


Correct. A chazaka check is allowed by halacha, so long as a Jewish adult is doing the checking. I'm not sure how a hechsher can rely on the company itself doing any kind of checking for them.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Dec 15 2019, 1:28 pm
amother [ Denim ] wrote:
Correct. A chazaka check is allowed by halacha, so long as a Jewish adult is doing the checking. I'm not sure how a hechsher can rely on the company itself doing any kind of checking for them.



Which is why most everyone using Organic Girl checks on their own.

Its not instant, but it doesnt take that long.

Its worth it though, because theres nothing healthier in the world to eat than leafy greens.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Sun, Dec 15 2019, 1:36 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Which is why most everyone using Organic Girl checks on their own.

Its not instant, but it doesnt take that long.

Its worth it though, because theres nothing healthier in the world to eat than leafy greens.


I don't know if it's sold where you live, but I usually buy fresh attitude greens. They're cheaper than organic girl in my area, and also tend to be fresher and last longer IME. They're also very very clean, but I haven't tried their organic line, only the regular.
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amother
Amber


 

Post Sun, Dec 15 2019, 1:57 pm
amother [ Denim ] wrote:
Of course this is true. Another of the reasons I check myself at home, but I do rely on chazaka for restaurants. This has nothing to do with my post though, not sure why you quoted me.

Please explain why it's different for you at home or in a restaurant. What if your buying a salad from takeout a d bringing it home?
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