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WAKE UP!! it has nothing to do with religion!!
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amother




Indigo
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:18 pm
amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:
That's right! My religion doesnt let me eat non kosher animals. I have to be careful to eat only refined food. Same way I believe I shouldnt be ingesting it either. Same way I cant eat monkeys and aborted babies I will not ingest it either.

My torah also says I have to guard my health. For me to inject toxins in my body is putting me at risk which I cannot do.


So how can it be that so many Rabbis say it’s fine?
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:22 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
The Religious Exemption was NOT abused. The Majority of "anti-vaxxers" are NOT Jewish. There ARE Religions that are anti-vax, anti most medical interventions. There are catholics who are anti-vax because some vaccines are made from aborted babies. There are Muslims who are anti-vax because contains pig or other animal tissue (monkey, rat).

Frum anti-vaxxers had a LEGITIMATE religious objection. If one believes vaccines are dangerous than it is forbidden to vax. This is part of the command of V'nishmarten Nafshosechem. Especially when it comes to children who had a severe vaccine reaction or their siblings.


OK. Let's backtrack a moment.

Lets say a mom has a child who had a severe vaccine reaction (confirmed by a doctor, that is- correlation & causation are not one & the same, so a medical professional would need to weigh in) and is now terrified to vaccinate any of her kids. You'd be surprised at how many pro vaxxers would be understanding of her situation and would support some sort or medical exemption for her family. I would.

How many anti vaxxers have had that experience? How many just go on & on about the dangers of vaccines, without having had any specific negative experience themselves? Many. You know it, BestBubby.

"V''nishmartem" is an extremely vague directive. If you would for some reason become disenfranchised from the frum community and falter in your faith (chase vesholom), would you go out and vaccinate immediately?
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:24 pm
amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:
That's right! My religion doesnt let me eat non kosher animals. I have to be careful to eat only refined food. Same way I believe I shouldnt be ingesting it either. Same way I cant eat monkeys and aborted babies I will not ingest it either.

My torah also says I have to guard my health. For me to inject toxins in my body is putting me at risk which I cannot do.


So you believe that those who vaccinate are off the derech, yes?

Halachos:

Keep kosher
Keep shabbos
Refrain from vaccines

Sounds right to you?
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amother




Indigo
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:27 pm
amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:
But maybe it should be...

Should a 14 year old be allowed to get a tattoo without parental consent? It is against Jewish and Moslem religions.

What if a 14 year old can refuse cancer treatment
Or refuse life saving treatments. Why should they be allowed to consent but not refuse?


I don’t rely on the government to be my kids mashgiach on religious matters. My 14 year old can legally go McDonald’s.

On right of 14 year old to refuse medical care? I’m not sure it’s the same thing.
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amother




Amethyst
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:28 pm
amother [ Indigo ] wrote:
I don’t rely on the government to be my kids mashgiach on religious matters. My 14 year old can legally go McDonald’s.

Of course not, but do you feel you have any parental control over your 14 year olds decisions?
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:30 pm
By the way since you ladies are very concerned with halacha, the Torah tells us to follow the laws of the land we live in.

How does that fit in to the narrative?
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:31 pm
amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:
But maybe it should be...

Should a 14 year old be allowed to get a tattoo without parental consent? It is against Jewish and Moslem religions.

What if a 14 year old can refuse cancer treatment
Or refuse life saving treatments. Why should they be allowed to consent but not refuse?


Children are given rights ONLY when it benefits Pharmaceutical Industry.

So children are allowed to get birth control w/o parental consent (Kaching!)
allowed to get vaccines without parental consent (Kaching!) but children are
not allowed to REFUSE vaccines - that would hurt Pharmaceutical Industries
profits. Children are not allowed to refuse cancer treatment - that would hurt
Pharmaceutical Industries profits.

It's like "my body my choice" ONLY applies to abortion but does NOT apply
to government forcing you to get injected with vaccines that can cause
death or permanent injury. When it comes to vaccines - it's not your body - your body is owned by government - and it's not your choice.


Last edited by #BestBubby on Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
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amother




Amethyst
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:32 pm
gold21 wrote:
By the way since you ladies are very concerned with halacha, the Torah tells us to follow the laws of the land we live in.

How does that fit in to the narrative?

Religious exemption was 100% legal in NY until June 13th. Many are leaving the state and country to now be legal anti vaxxers.
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:33 pm
amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:
Religious exemption was 100% legal in NY until June 13th. Many are leaving the state and country to now be legal anti vaxxers.


OK.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:34 pm
amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:
Religious exemption was 100% legal in NY until June 13th. Many are leaving the state and country to now be legal anti vaxxers.


Only a matter of time until ALL EXEMPTIONS are gone in ALL States.
And that includes Medical Exemptions which Doctors are INTIMIDATED by
government not to give any. ANd if doctors do give medical exemptions they
are often taken away by Government.
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:35 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Children are given rights ONLY when it benefits Pharmaceutical Industry.

So children are allowed to get birth control w/o parental consent (Kaching!)
allowed to get vaccines without parental consent (Kaching!) but children are
not allowed to REFUSE vaccines - that would hurt Pharmaceutical Industries
profits. Children are not allowed to refuse cancer treatment - that would hurt
Pharmaceutical Industries profits.

It's like "my body my choice" ONLY applies to abortion but does NOT apply
to government forcing you to get injected with vaccines that can cause
death or permanent injury. When it comes to vaccines - it's not your body - your body is owned by government - and it's not your choice.


So you're in favor of abortion.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:36 pm
gold21 wrote:
By the way since you ladies are very concerned with halacha, the Torah tells us to follow the laws of the land we live in.

How does that fit in to the narrative?


1. We don't have to listen to laws that are against the Torah.

2. Nothing illegal or against the Torah to try to legally change laws.
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:38 pm
gold21 wrote:
So you're pro abortion?

Just wondering.

Freedom & all....

(Does if matter if someone else's freedoms are being infringed on by your "freedom"? Or that's a non issue to you?)


No I am anti-abortion because I am anti-murder. Freedom is not freedom to
murder another human being.

Except for cases where the pregnancy risks the life or permanent injury to the mother. In that case abortion is "self defense".
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:38 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
1. We don't have to listen to laws that are against the Torah.

2. Nothing illegal or against the Torah to try to legally change laws.


1. If its against the Torah, why are so many rabbanim in favor of vaccines? Should I assume those rabbanim are not well versed in halacha? Doubtful.
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amother




Indigo
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:39 pm
amother [ Amethyst ] wrote:
Of course not, but do you feel you have any parental control over your 14 year olds decisions?


Meaning control over which decisions he is permitted to make in his life?

Like - he doesn’t get to decide how late you stay out?
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:39 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
No I am anti-abortion because I am anti-murder. Freedom is not freedom to
murder another human being.

Except for cases where the pregnancy risks the life or permanent injury to the mother. In that case abortion is "self defense".


Ah. So is freedom the freedom to put others lives in danger?
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#BestBubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:40 pm
gold21 wrote:
So you believe that those who vaccinate are off the derech, yes?

Halachos:

Keep kosher
Keep shabbos
Refrain from vaccines

Sounds right to you?


Halochos:

Keep Kosher
Keep Shabbos
Guard your Health

How one understands "guarding health" differs but the COMMANDMENT is from the Torah.
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amother




Amethyst
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:42 pm
amother [ Indigo ] wrote:
Meaning control over which decisions he is permitted to make in his life?

Like - he doesn’t get to decide how late you stay out?

Why can he decide to have sx and get medical procedure (hpv) with the associated risks (however large or small you may consider them), yet he cant even decide how late to stay out??
Doesnt it seem like there is a major discrepancy here?
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gold21




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:44 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Halochos:

Keep Kosher
Keep Shabbos
Guard your Health

How one understands "guarding health" differs but the COMMANDMENT is from the Torah.


Right. V'nishmartem is a very loose term. A bit farfetched to run a whole anti vaxx agenda based off of something so vague. As if without the existence of this directive, you'd be first in line running to vaccinate. I'll bet.

When you see parents vaccinating their kids, your first thought is- what a shandah, halacha is being violated-?


Last edited by gold21 on Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Amethyst
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 11:44 pm
gold21 wrote:
1. If its against the Torah, why are so many rabbanim in favor of vaccines? Should I assume those rabbanim are not well versed in halacha? Doubtful.

Many rabbanim are not aware of the true extent of vaccine injury. It's not the issue of halacha they dont know, it's the risks of vaccines they dont know.
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