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WAKE UP!! it has nothing to do with religion!!
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amother




Indigo
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 1:52 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I think you're missing the point. It's completely related. Any new vaccine introduced will be mandatory for children and adults - that's THIS bill.

This is no longer about following the schedule. Many parents opt out of flu shot or don't want their kids to get HPV or gardasil.

It's not even about that either. It's the fact that your child can be forcibly injected without you knowing or consenting?? (a school nurse cannot give motrin but now they can give vaccine?)

Have you read the amendments to the bill??


I missed the forced vaccination? Can you highlight that?

I read the amended bill. I don’t like the bill - but I really dislike fear mongering.

As of now all vaccines on the schedule are mandatory for school. As of now healthy people without a religion are required to take vaccines on the schedule for school.
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amother




Indigo
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 1:58 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Come on that's what they said it would be but that was never the intention - clearly, just look at all the amendments added after the hearing which make the RE a literal footnote compared to everything else they are trying to slip in.


You know about intention? What happened since the bill was originally drafted was the measles outbreak lingering.

What was slipped in?
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 8:37 am
amother [ Indigo ] wrote:
You know about intention? What happened since the bill was originally drafted was the measles outbreak lingering.

What was slipped in?

Yeah 19 reported cases in NJ. Waaa!
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amother




Coral
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 8:51 am
guess you could call me "pro vax for contagious preventable diseases" like not for gardasil which I believe should be left up to parent and dr to decide.
I also do not believe in putting the school or government in charge of children (barring extreme cases/exceptions of abuse or the like) and believe in letting parents be the authority of their children and make medical decisions with their doctor (again I'm speaking of within the norm) for their children.

Op when you put in something that is not true like the chlamydia example you really undermine your credibility. If you want people to listen and mobilize please do not do this.

It is not all or nothing. I can be pro vax and still against a poorly written or too broad reach bill.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 9:06 am
I would think that public school families would be more affected by this and it would only affect frum schools if allowing nurses to forcibly inject students was tied to getting school buses in Lakewood. Therefore, why are the vast majority of NJ families, who I presume are not Jewish and therefore probably attend public school, not bothered by this?
I think that the general public is fine with allowing 14 year old kids the right to choose, particularly if they are in danger of catching a VPD. What if a 14 year old doesn't want to catch the mumps and measles or meningitis? Should he be forced to catch it, or forego medical treatment for any illness, due to his parents' beliefs?
I think that we should concern ourselves on how this could affect the frum community. Should frum schools and communities shun anti-vaxers or be allowed or encouraged to tolerate them? I see it as more of an internal matter.
I don't think that states should link vaccines to obtaining a driver's license but I do feel that insurance companies should have a right to change more if there is no medical reason not to vaccinate.
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amother




Indigo
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 9:09 am
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
Yeah 19 reported cases in NJ. Waaa!


Yes. And a whole lot more in NY. If that hadn’t happened it’s a reasonable conclusion the bill as originally drafted wouldn’t have been changed... but really none of us know what was in the drafters mind when he wrote the first version. Perhaps he realized that his goal, reducing the amount of bogus RE claims wouldn’t have been met.
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 9:16 am
amother [ Coral ] wrote:
guess you could call me "pro vax for contagious preventable diseases" like not for gardasil which I believe should be left up to parent and dr to decide.
I also do not believe in putting the school or government in charge of children (barring extreme cases/exceptions of abuse or the like) and believe in letting parents be the authority of their children and make medical decisions with their doctor (again I'm speaking of within the norm) for their children.

Op when you put in something that is not true like the chlamydia example you really undermine your credibility. If you want people to listen and mobilize please do not do this.

It is not all or nothing. I can be pro vax and still against a poorly written or too broad reach bill.

Your post is exactly OP's point (if I may speak for her Wink !!! You can be pro-vax and think religious exemptions are bogus and still be totally and completely against this bill and very concerned at the way this is going through. Hence the title - this has nothing to do with religion. This is government overreach at its finest. (See my thread about the corruption in passing this bill as well as the one in NY.)
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dancingqueen




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 9:36 am
Thanks for being honest and admitting that not wanting to vaccinate is not about religion for you, even though you are requesting religious exemptions.
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amother




Puce
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 9:39 am
Yes. And things probably wouldn't have come to this if so many hadn't misused the RE....
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 9:39 am
dancingqueen wrote:
Thanks for being honest and admitting that not wanting to vaccinate is not about religion for you, even though you are requesting religious exemptions.

Whom are you talking to? I, for one, vaccinate my kids. But if you read my thread I linked in the above post, it is very concerning to me the way they are trying to get this through.
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amother




Indigo
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 9:43 am
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
Your post is exactly OP's point (if I may speak for her Wink !!! You can be pro-vax and think religious exemptions are bogus and still be totally and completely against this bill and very concerned at the way this is going through. Hence the title - this has nothing to do with religion. This is government overreach at its finest. (See my thread about the corruption in passing this bill as well as the one in NY.)


Do you follow any other NJ politics?
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 9:43 am
amother [ Puce ] wrote:
Yes. And things probably wouldn't have come to this if so many hadn't misused the RE....

Says who?
Please read the other thread about the corruption. Your reasoning is what they want you to think, but the facts don't point to any truth therein. I didn't see anybody really interested in seeing if not vaccinating is a religious issue or not. Instead I see an agenda of government officials who closed their hearts and minds to others and who are not acting in the interests of the people.
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 9:45 am
amother [ Indigo ] wrote:
Do you follow any other NJ politics?

No. I follow NY politics because I live in NY, but then this issue of corruption and force of vaccinations got me so worked up (again, see my other thread for context), that I began following the NJ trainwreck on this issue only.
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amother




Puce
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 9:45 am
Well now you know to blame those who misused the exemption.
Also I don't know why everyone is acting so shocked about possible corruption in getting laws passes. There's probably a good amount in every law that gets passed. Yet, the world keeps on turning and the country stays stable enough.
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 9:48 am
amother [ Puce ] wrote:
Well now you know to blame those who misused the exemption.
Also I don't know why everyone is acting so shocked about possible corruption in getting laws passes. There's probably a good amount in every law that gets passed. Yet, the world keeps on turning and the country stays stable enough.

I blame the government because this is their job.
Bottom line: corruption is normal, expected, and I should give up and be ok with it?
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amother




Indigo
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 9:48 am
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
Says who?
Please read the other thread about the corruption. Your reasoning is what they want you to think, but the facts don't point to any truth therein. I didn't see anybody really interested in seeing if not vaccinating is a religious issue or not. Instead I see an agenda of government officials who closed their hearts and minds to others and who are not acting in the interests of the people.


I’m sorry your opinion is more valid than mine because?

This is politics. This is what politics looks like.

If the removal of the RE violates religious freedom rights - that’s for the court system to determine.
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amother




Indigo
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 9:49 am
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
I blame the government because this is their job.
Bottom line: corruption is normal, expected, and I should give up and be ok with it?


Dirty politics isn’t corruption. Where is your case for corruption?
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amother




Indigo
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 9:51 am
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
No. I follow NY politics because I live in NY, but then this issue of corruption and force of vaccinations got me so worked up (again, see my other thread for context), that I began following the NJ trainwreck on this issue only.


Great so ‘this is government overreach at it’s finest’ is a whole lot of hyperbole.
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amother




Tan
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 9:52 am
amother [ Indigo ] wrote:
I’m sorry your opinion is more valid than mine because?

This is politics. This is what politics looks like.

If the removal of the RE violates religious freedom rights - that’s for the court system to determine.

The court system isn't being allowed to decide!!! The State, who is the defendant in the case, has switched out the judges twice on two different lawsuits challenging the repeal in NY. How is that constitutional?
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amother




Puce
 

Post  Sun, Dec 15 2019, 9:52 am
amother [ Tan ] wrote:
I blame the government because this is their job.
Bottom line: corruption is normal, expected, and I should give up and be ok with it?

I don't think you realize how good we have it with the American government. Try living in a totalitarian country for just a week and I think your eyes will be opened.
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