Using Yiddish name--should we keep unusual spelling?

pmom

Fri, Dec 20 2019, 11:30 am

my son's name is pinchas. everyone spells it peh nun ches samech. the torah (parshas pinchas) spells it Peh yud nun ches samech.
it's funny cause when I went to do kapelech for his upsherin, the lady said, oh you are from ____ family... I know you spell it with a yud. you are the only ones... cheder is constantly misspelling it... but the torah spells it with a yud and my grandfather spelled it with a yud.

Ema of 5

Fri, Dec 20 2019, 11:36 am

pmom wrote:

My name is Tzippora, and I spell my name the way it is in the torah- without a vav. When I was in school, teachers would constantly correct it on number work, and I would correct their correction, u til I got tired of it and just started writing it in English....Tzippy is so much easier :-)

Ema of 5

Sun, Dec 22 2019, 11:16 am

pmom wrote:

yes. in my husbands family we also have this name and spell it Tzipra, without the Vuv ציפרה.
everyone is called tzippy

That is a beautiful name, although slightly different from mine.

amother

Blush

Sun, Dec 22 2019, 11:22 am

Ruchel wrote:

Define fairly new... is thousand fairly new? Possibly more.

There can various good spellings. I would ask a specialist

Names like sheindel are about 3-400 years old.

thanks

Sun, Dec 22 2019, 12:20 pm

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

My daughter’s name is Shaindel as well and I spell it with one Yud. That is the correct spelling .

Wouldn’t dawn on me to spell it differently.

Yiddish spelling is phonetic. The vowels are as follows:
One yud is a chirik
Two yuds is a tzeirei
Aleph is a pasach or komatz,
Vov-yud is a cholom
vov is shoorook
Ayin is a segel

I don't understand the spelling with one yud. Can someone explain.

Last edited by thanks on Tue, Dec 24 2019, 2:01 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Yellow

Sun, Dec 22 2019, 10:44 pm

In Satmar Vayoel Moshe in Monroe before graduation the teachers showed all the name spellings to a Dayan for the diplomas. Shaindel came back with one yud (as did Raizel) because that is the real spelling! So definitely spell it with one yud!

iluvjlem

Mon, Dec 23 2019, 5:12 am

Halachic spelling of Hebrew and Yiddish names was codified by the Beis Shmuel. His list is included in the Shulchan Aruch, and abided by every Ashkenazi posek as far as I know.

farmom

Mon, Dec 23 2019, 6:50 am

b.chadash wrote:

Correct. בילא is not Yiddish. Its an acronym for ברוך ה' לעולם אמן

Wow! I never heard this!
I thought it came from the Spanish Bella.
I have a daughter Baila, and recently checked with a rav, who confirmed that it should be spelled with one yud.

amother

Blush

Mon, Dec 23 2019, 7:06 am

farmom wrote:

Wow! I never heard this!
I thought it came from the Spanish Bella.
I have a daughter Baila, and recently checked with a rav, who confirmed that it should be spelled with one yud.

You are correct. The acronym is a nice afterthought.
It's vernacular just like a y other Yiddish name.

lifesagift

Mon, Dec 23 2019, 9:22 am

thanks wrote:

Yiddish spelling is phonetic. The vowels are as follows:
One yud is a chirik
Two yuds is a tzeirei
Aleph is a pasach or komat,
Vov is a cholom
Ayin is a segel

I don't understand the spelling with one yud. Can someone explain.

2 yuds represent tzeirei
But sometimes we have the chasidish tzerei sound with 1 yud following a pasach as in mordechai.
According to that logic the name would always be sheindy, not shaindy

thanks

Mon, Dec 23 2019, 9:38 am

lifesagift wrote:

2 yuds represent tzeirei
But sometimes we have the chasidish tzerei sound with 1 yud following a pasach as in mordechai.
According to that logic the name would always be sheindy, not shaindy

The vowels, in both Yiddish and Hebrew, are pronounced differently in the different dialects.
Chassidim pronounce a tzeirei as a long I (like the English word hi). For example: אלוקינו. This will be pronounce elokainu, elokieni, or elokaini. Think of words with two yuds. for example: גיי געזונטערהײט

This word is pronounced gie gezunterhite, or gay gezunterhate.

So my question remains.

Last edited by thanks on Mon, Dec 23 2019, 9:45 am; edited 1 time in total

nchr

Mon, Dec 23 2019, 9:43 am

thanks wrote:

The tzeirei is pronounced that way by chassidim (to the exclusion of sqver and a few others). For example: אלוקינו. This will be pronounce elokainu, elokieni, or elokaini. Think of words with two yuds. for example: גיי געזונטערהײט

This word is pronounced gie gezunterhite, or gay gezunterhate.

So my question remains.

Because Yiddish is not a halachic language - it's a Jewishism of a vernacular. It's like asking why we dont spell Samuel in English on a get lol. I don't understand the question. And the correct halachic or whatever you want to call to spelling of Shaindel, Raizel, Faigel, etc. is with one yud (albeit plenty of people have that mistake - my sister for example has a daughter Raizy and she knows the name is with one yud but she wanted it on her wedding invitation with two for uniqueness like how she wrote her name Raisy with an Sike Rosy so they did that for her but the Kesiba it has one yud the correct way). A name that happens to have two yuds when spelled correctly is Pia but that is not Yiddish so irrelevant to this discussion.

thanks

Mon, Dec 23 2019, 9:52 am

nchr wrote:

It's true that yiddish not a halchic language, however, spelling in yiddish is always phonetic. That's why there should be a logical answer to this question. Unless you're saying some Rabbis decided on the correct spelling without expertise in linguistics.

lifesagift

Mon, Dec 23 2019, 10:01 am

thanks wrote:

Exactly my answer
The chasidishe pronunciation for tzerei is the same as pasach followed by yud, as my example of mordechai, which uses 1 yud. What don't you understand?

nchr

Mon, Dec 23 2019, 10:01 am

thanks wrote:

No that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the YIDDISH language has no place on a halachic document like a get. I've also just heard that two yuds are a problem because it is Hashem's name, but that wouldn't work with names like Pia that are spelled that way.

There are other names people often spell wrong like Ettel, Frimet, Blims, Alta, Nicha, etc.

It must be more than that as well because clearly there are seforim about the issue.

Also, Yiddish spelling today was not necessarily the case 100 years ago (if you've ever looked at old writings etc. you'll see that).

And also, spelling is pretty irrelevant unless we're talking about a get.