Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Parenting our children
12 yr old DD hit me
Previous  1  2  3  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother
Periwinkle


 

Post Mon, Dec 23 2019, 6:09 pm
I would be to be shocked and appalled for a child to hit a parent. I would voice it at the time.

I would take away the chanukah present instead of taking her to lunch. This permissive parenting is what is making entitled kids.
Back to top

groisamomma




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 23 2019, 6:19 pm
amother [ Periwinkle ] wrote:
I would be to be shocked and appalled for a child to hit a parent. I would voice it at the time.

I would take away the chanukah present instead of taking her to lunch. This permissive parenting is what is making entitled kids.


This, all the way! Love them? Definitely. Discipline them? Absolutely.

Find a good balance which doesn't reward chutzpah. If we parents have no self-respect, why should the kids have any respect for us? Contrary to imamother belief, not reacting to physical assault from a 12-year-old (never mind taking her out to lunch as a result!) does not teach good values. At all.
Back to top

amother
Magenta


 

Post Mon, Dec 23 2019, 6:20 pm
amother [ Periwinkle ] wrote:
I would be to be shocked and appalled for a child to hit a parent. I would voice it at the time.

I would take away the chanukah present instead of taking her to lunch. This permissive parenting is what is making entitled kids.

Yes, I agree with this. She does need to know this is a boundary that can't be crossed.

But additionally, op, I think it would be helpful to take a closer look at the dynamics of the relationship. Your daughter seems very unhappy and, if things stay the same (the way you relate to each other) sounds like she may be in for a turbulent teenage stage. Maybe parenting classes or counseling would be warranted. Unhappy teen girls can spiral downward quickly and into bad places
Back to top

amother
Honeydew


 

Post Mon, Dec 23 2019, 6:30 pm
amother [ Periwinkle ] wrote:
I would be to be shocked and appalled for a child to hit a parent. I would voice it at the time.

I would take away the chanukah present instead of taking her to lunch. This permissive parenting is what is making entitled kids.


You have to ask why is a 12 year old hitting a parent?? How angry and lost she must be. No child wants to be in the driver's seat of a relationship.
Lunch is not a reward, it's a bonding opportunity.
Why do we wait til the kids are on the streets to start lavishing them with love?
(I need hardly point out that the advice from bubby here is dated and generally terrible)
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 23 2019, 7:03 pm
amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:
You have to ask why is a 12 year old hitting a parent?? How angry and lost she must be. No child wants to be in the driver's seat of a relationship.
Lunch is not a reward, it's a bonding opportunity.
Why do we wait til the kids are on the streets to start lavishing them with love?
(I need hardly point out that the advice from bubby here is dated and generally terrible)


Yes, explaining to children what a serious aveirah (Chayav Misah!) it is to hit a parent is so terrible (sarc). That is why I never had a problem of 12 y.o. raising
a hand to a mother.

But you modern mothers are much smarter - that is why you have such out of control kids.

I will admit that you cannot discipline like "the old days" because older kids will
know that is not acceptable today. But parents don't have to such wimps and let
the kids walk all over them.
Back to top

amother
Gray


 

Post Mon, Dec 23 2019, 7:10 pm
I would separate the two things. Behavior and emotional.

A 12 year old hitting a mother? No. Just no. Consequence and make it clear it is completely unacceptable.

Later, particularly so as not to be misinterpreted as rewarding poor behavior,/poor choice,
I would pursue the bonding/exploring/and strengthening aspect of the relationship and look into what is going on with her. And how she can develop tools to better deal. On an ongoing basis.

If you need parenting help/class/mentor get it. You are heading into a new developmental stage that can be challenging.

hugs and hatzlocha
Back to top

amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Mon, Dec 23 2019, 7:13 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Yes, explaining to children what a serious aveirah (Chayav Misah!) it is to hit a parent is so terrible (sarc). That is why I never had a problem of 12 y.o. raising
a hand to a mother.

But you modern mothers are much smarter - that is why you have such out of control kids.

I will admit that you cannot discipline like "the old days" because older kids will
know that is not acceptable today. But parents don't have to such wimps and let
the kids walk all over them.

CFI wrote:
Self Serving Bias
Self-serving cognitive bias is the propensity to attribute positive outcomes to skill and negative outcomes to luck. In other words, we attribute the cause of something to whatever is in our own best interest. Many of us can recall times that we’ve done something and decided that if everything is going to plan, it’s due to skill, and if things go the other way, then it’s just bad luck.
Back to top

amother
Honeydew


 

Post Mon, Dec 23 2019, 7:29 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Yes, explaining to children what a serious aveirah (Chayav Misah!) it is to hit a parent is so terrible (sarc). That is why I never had a problem of 12 y.o. raising
a hand to a mother.

But you modern mothers are much smarter - that is why you have such out of control kids.

I will admit that you cannot discipline like "the old days" because older kids will
know that is not acceptable today. But parents don't have to such wimps and let
the kids walk all over them.


The slap her dd gave is hardly one that warrants misah, look it up in the Rambam. Really no need for these histrionics when raising a tween, sorry.
Being loving doesn't preclude being firm and establishing boundaries, and nowhere have I suggested otherwise.
I'll also put forth how ironic the entire older generation is assuring us they did everything right when today's parents are literally just trying to not repeat what was done to them.
Back to top

amother
Gray


 

Post Mon, Dec 23 2019, 7:35 pm
Think about it -- how would she be treated, what consequences would she receive if she hit a peer in school? Or a teacher?
Obviously the relationship with mother is unique; however, all the more so not to tolerate such behavior. Not good for her not to have a very clear boundary, consequence, and normal expectations. Common sense. At the very least she should know how very disappointed you are. Kids want normal boundaries. They want to know their parents are in charge in a healthy way.

Some behavior does not matter "why" at the time. The "why" and better solution oriented approach is explored later.
Back to top

amother
Slategray


 

Post Mon, Dec 23 2019, 8:13 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Yes, explaining to children what a serious aveirah (Chayav Misah!) it is to hit a parent is so terrible (sarc). That is why I never had a problem of 12 y.o. raising
a hand to a mother.

But you modern mothers are much smarter - that is why you have such out of control kids.

I will admit that you cannot discipline like "the old days" because older kids will
know that is not acceptable today. But parents don't have to such wimps and let
the kids walk all over them.

Imo this is a bit delusional.
Do you really think kids care about being chayav misa? They're kids. If it's not tangible, it doesn't exist.
Parents of this generation arent wimps at all! We go the extra extra mile to make sure our kids know they are loved 100% of the time even when they do something wrong.
Not like the lazy abusive parenting methods we grew up under. Smacks, belts, yelling, silent treatment, always under threat of punishment.
We dont want that for our kids. It doesnt take a genius to hit or punish. It takes a genius to PARENT- to draw a child close while teaching what is unacceptable. To work with a child in a way that he will respond positively.
To me this mirrors our relationship with G-d. Kids generally see G-d the same way they see their parents.
Abusive parent = abusive G-d.
Loving parent = loving G-d
Just like G-d is patient with us when we make mistakes or do the wrong thing, the same we need to do for our children. Be patient. Mistakes is how we all learn to do better.
My hunch as to why so many my age are OTD or not very interested. How could we have learned to trust G-d if we couldnt even trust our parents?
Back to top

roses




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 23 2019, 8:22 pm
amother [ Honeydew ] wrote:
The slap her dd gave is hardly one that warrants misah, look it up in the Rambam. Really no need for these histrionics when raising a tween, sorry.
Being loving doesn't preclude being firm and establishing boundaries, and nowhere have I suggested otherwise.
I'll also put forth how ironic the entire older generation is assuring us they did everything right when today's parents are literally just trying to not repeat what was done to them.


Excellent point.

Pretty much everyone I know is trying really hard to not be their mother.

I think "chayav misah" parenting is exactly the kind of advice best left behind in the previous generation. That kind of parenting left enough scars and damage that need not be passed down to the next generation.
Back to top

roses




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 23 2019, 8:27 pm
amother [ Slategray ] wrote:
Imo this is a bit delusional.
Do you really think kids care about being chayav misa? They're kids. If it's not tangible, it doesn't exist.
Parents of this generation arent wimps at all! We go the extra extra mile to make sure our kids know they are loved 100% of the time even when they do something wrong.
Not like the lazy abusive parenting methods we grew up under. Smacks, belts, yelling, silent treatment, always under threat of punishment.
We dont want that for our kids. It doesnt take a genius to hit or punish. It takes a genius to PARENT- to draw a child close while teaching what is unacceptable. To work with a child in a way that he will respond positively.
To me this mirrors our relationship with G-d. Kids generally see G-d the same way they see their parents.
Abusive parent = abusive G-d.
Loving parent = loving G-d
Just like G-d is patient with us when we make mistakes or do the wrong thing, the same we need to do for our children. Be patient. Mistakes is how we all learn to do better.
My hunch as to why so many my age are OTD or not very interested. How could we have learned to trust G-d if we couldnt even trust our parents?


This post is amazing, and I agree with every word. I especially agree with the "lazy parenting" label- the shaming, threatening, hitting, yelling, etc. It takes a lot more wisdom to move away from that kind of parenting to be truly mechanech children-al pi darkum.
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 23 2019, 9:30 pm
amother [ Slategray ] wrote:
Imo this is a bit delusional.
Do you really think kids care about being chayav misa? They're kids. If it's not tangible, it doesn't exist.
Parents of this generation arent wimps at all! We go the extra extra mile to make sure our kids know they are loved 100% of the time even when they do something wrong.
Not like the lazy abusive parenting methods we grew up under. Smacks, belts, yelling, silent treatment, always under threat of punishment.
We dont want that for our kids. It doesnt take a genius to hit or punish. It takes a genius to PARENT- to draw a child close while teaching what is unacceptable. To work with a child in a way that he will respond positively.
To me this mirrors our relationship with G-d. Kids generally see G-d the same way they see their parents.
Abusive parent = abusive G-d.
Loving parent = loving G-d
Just like G-d is patient with us when we make mistakes or do the wrong thing, the same we need to do for our children. Be patient. Mistakes is how we all learn to do better.
My hunch as to why so many my age are OTD or not very interested. How could we have learned to trust G-d if we couldnt even trust our parents?


I agree that children relate to G-d the way they relate to their parents.

So children today don't believe in Gehinnom because children believe G-d never
punishes - just like their parents - always forgive even if the children don't apologize or make any effort to improve.

Sorry, but G-d does not "parent" that way. You are doing your children a
dis-service.

There were ALWAYS children who went OTD. In the time of Chanukah, most
Jews were "reform" (Hellinists). Children of permissive parents also go OTD.
Why not? They don't have to afraid G-d will punish because G-d loves them and
will forgive them no matter what.
Back to top

amother
Slategray


 

Post Mon, Dec 23 2019, 10:38 pm
Yes He will forgive no matter what. That's teshuva.
And no my kids arent growing up under the threat of Gehinnom, chibut hakever, Kaf hakelah, kareis, skilah, sreifa, hereg, chenek, or even malkus.
It's not part of our lives at all.
Back to top

#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 23 2019, 10:59 pm
amother [ Slategray ] wrote:
Yes He will forgive no matter what. That's teshuva.
And no my kids arent growing up under the threat of Gehinnom, chibut hakever, Kaf hakelah, kareis, skilah, sreifa, hereg, chenek, or even malkus.
It's not part of our lives at all.


Kids think G-d will forgive without Teshuva. Teshuva means saying sorry.
Teshuva means NOT doing it again.

Parents let kids abuse them and forgive them without any apologies and
without any promises not to do it again.

Sorry, G-d doesn't work that way. No forgiveness without Teshuva.

And your children are supposed to know about Gehinnom. Do they say
the 13 Ani Ma'amins? One of them is about Schar V'Onesh. It is an important
part of our belief system. Don't know how you can just skip it.
Back to top

roses




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Dec 23 2019, 11:28 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
Kids think G-d will forgive without Teshuva. Teshuva means saying sorry.
Teshuva means NOT doing it again.

Parents let kids abuse them and forgive them without any apologies and
without any promises not to do it again.

Sorry, G-d doesn't work that way. No forgiveness without Teshuva.

And your children are supposed to know about Gehinnom. Do they say
the 13 Ani Ma'amins? One of them is about Schar V'Onesh. It is an important
part of our belief system. Don't know how you can just skip it.


These hashkafos are totally not in line with normative frum parenting as guided by mainstream chinuch experts and Rabbonim. Your advice to threaten children with gehinom and to tell them they are chayav misah is a recipe to lead them straight OTD.

We teach our children to love Hashem and our mitzvos. We don't teach them to live in terror and have nightmares every night. We don't teach them there is a vengeful angry G-d , and we don't treat them in a vengeful and angry way as parents.

If I heard any parent talk to their child in the way that you are recommending, I would think the parent is abusive, dysfunctional and lacking in basics of Judaism and normative frum hashkafa.
Back to top

notshanarishona




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 24 2019, 7:40 am
She needs a big consequence - I would agree with not giving the big present but she also needs help . Maybe therapy ?
Back to top

saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 24 2019, 8:43 am
OP, it sounds like a huge combination of factors. I am finding the social/emotional challenges as my kids get older so challenging!

Your daughter sounds like an overall wonderful child who is having a rough time. It is really hard to feel like everyone around you is getting "more" and "better" than you, regardless of the truth. I don't have any sage advice as I always feel like I'm doing the wrong thing. But I will saying telling your kids that they are chayav misa is a terrible idea.

My mother gave my 11 year old an "outing" gift and he was over the moon about it. So I like Amother Honeydew's suggestion.

I also recommend reading "Raising Human Beings" - great book!

This generation is actually trying to figure out what the problem is and help our children learn and grow up. We are trying to figure out what skills are lacking and how to teach them. Some kids need physical therapy, some kids need help with emotional regulation. You may get your child to stop hitting you with old school parenting but you probably won't actually solve any of the problems associated with. Behavior is a communication tool.
Back to top

amother
Dodgerblue


 

Post Tue, Dec 24 2019, 9:15 am
#BestBubby wrote:
Kids think G-d will forgive without Teshuva. Teshuva means saying sorry.
Teshuva means NOT doing it again.

Parents let kids abuse them and forgive them without any apologies and
without any promises not to do it again.

Sorry, G-d doesn't work that way. No forgiveness without Teshuva.

And your children are supposed to know about Gehinnom. Do they say
the 13 Ani Ma'amins? One of them is about Schar V'Onesh. It is an important
part of our belief system. Don't know how you can just skip it.


It's interesting, I started reading about this topic about this after a relative of mine died. First off, we don't believe a neshama, unless an outright rasha which we would never assume about a specific person, gets more than 11 months of punishment, that's why kaddish is said for 11 months.

And the 11 months of punishment as we understand it, is the pain of not feeling close to Hashem. We as frum Jews do not believe in a fiery hell. Those 11 months are considered purification, even if the person had not done proper teshuva while alive.

I started reading about this because I thought my relative was a terrible person. Bad middos, was dishonest in business, abusive and caused lots of pain. But still, I felt sad thinking about gehinom. I found it very comforting to learn how we Jews view gehinnom and punishment. Because Hashem's love for each of us is unending.
Back to top

amother
Slategray


 

Post Tue, Dec 24 2019, 10:36 am
#BestBubby wrote:
Kids think G-d will forgive without Teshuva. Teshuva means saying sorry.
Teshuva means NOT doing it again.

Parents let kids abuse them and forgive them without any apologies and
without any promises not to do it again.

Sorry, G-d doesn't work that way. No forgiveness without Teshuva.

And your children are supposed to know about Gehinnom. Do they say
the 13 Ani Ma'amins? One of them is about Schar V'Onesh. It is an important
part of our belief system. Don't know how you can just skip it.

Teshuva means returning- returning to G-d. The apology doesnt need to come through shame and punishment. It can come through love and acceptance and always striving for better.
A relationship through love is stronger, better quality, than one built through fear and threats.

Gehinnom is a consequence of doing aveiros, the neshama needs to be cleansed before proceeding higher. Gehinnom is not supposed to be used as a threat.

G-d is not angry and vengeful, looking down on us, waiting to catch us at a mistake.
Remember the 13 midos harachamim that describe Him. Rachum vchanun. Erech Apayim. Rav chesed vemes. Etc.

Do you know that a little bit of suffering in this world takes the place of a huge amount of cleansing the neshama would have to go through after passing away?

Look around and see the suffering we or our friends go through. We are tzaddikim by now.
Gehinnom isnt supposed to be a threat. That is a misguided, damaging view of yiddishkeit.

Parenting is "yamin mekareves, smol doche," with the right arm we draw a child close and with the left (less dominant arm) we push away the bad character traits. Heavy emphasis on drawing a child close with our right arm first and foremost.

Parenting is chanoch lnaar al pi darko- according to the child, so that even when he gets older, he wont turn away from the right path. That means ingrained within him, in a way that he will accept it, tailor made to his personality. B'ofen hamiskabel, in a pleasant, positive way so that it is palatable to him.

This is not lazy parenting. This is hard work! It takes time, forethought, creativity, and $ too. And it isn't a one time done deal. It's countless calculated decisions, being proactive instead of reactive.
Back to top
Page 2 of 3 Previous  1  2  3  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Please hit me with your best DIET recipes
by amother
26 Fri, Mar 22 2024, 3:43 pm View last post
I hit my kid
by amother
52 Tue, Nov 21 2023, 1:05 am View last post
The didnt hit in the olden days either!
by amother
51 Thu, Sep 07 2023, 4:01 pm View last post
Boy recovering iyh from baseball hit?
by CGYK
1 Fri, Sep 01 2023, 11:40 am View last post
My daughter hit me
by amother
71 Thu, Aug 31 2023, 11:33 pm View last post