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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children
He is not welcome
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 10:23 am
I am going oot for shabbos and ds is otd (not in public) has a ponytail/shulder length hair.
I am going for a family simcha and hope all my family will be ok as some have not seen ds in a couple of years.

I am sleeping by a close friend, without him, as she has no space, and she said that she does not want ds to come to her house when her kids are around, she doesnt want to expose them.... I do fully understand where she is coming from and the culture/place she is living in but it still hurts. Hes is my ds after all.

I am lucky though that a cousin offered to have us on Thu night for lighting and for a shabbos meal, so we can spend time together ds and I, as he studies oot term time. and is not worried re his kids being influenced by my harmless son.....
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amother
Crimson


 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 10:43 am
I'm so sorry! what a difficult situation for you to be in.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 10:44 am
your son is an extension of you ... if he's not welcome; you are not welcome

unconditional love is the only source of comfort to the wayward child
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egam




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 10:46 am
greenfire wrote:
your son is an extension of you ... if he's not welcome; you are not welcome

unconditional love is the only source of comfort to the wayward child


In full agreement. I would find a different place to stay.
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Zehava




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 10:50 am
I’d find myself other friends. But that’s just me.
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amother
Smokey


 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 10:53 am
I wouldn't stay at someone's home where my kids aren't welcome. Even if there's a good reason for it.
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 10:53 am
greenfire wrote:
your son is an extension of you ... if he's not welcome; you are not welcome

unconditional love is the only source of comfort to the wayward child



ABSOLUTELY
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naomi2




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 11:13 am
Tell them to ask their rav a shaila if they are allowed to exclude a jewish relative from their home on shobbos in this scenario.
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ruchelbuckle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 11:20 am
naomi2 wrote:
Tell them to ask their rav a shaila if they are allowed to exclude a jewish relative from their home on shobbos in this scenario.


No. She is obviously not interested in having OPs son. If a Rav told her that he’s, she had to host OPs son— do you think that she would do it happily? Would OP be happy bringing her son there at this point? Would the son feel comfortable there? I doubt it.
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polka dots




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 11:21 am
naomi2 wrote:
Tell them to ask their rav a shaila if they are allowed to exclude a jewish relative from their home on shobbos in this scenario.


I don’t think it’s appropriate to ask them to ask a rav. They have a right to make their own decision. They are graciously willing to host op. It’s their choice who to have in their home.

It is op’s choice to go alone or not to go to them at all.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 11:56 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I am going oot for shabbos and ds is otd (not in public) has a ponytail/shulder length hair.
I am going for a family simcha and hope all my family will be ok as some have not seen ds in a couple of years.

I am sleeping by a close friend, without him, as she has no space, and she said that she does not want ds to come to her house when her kids are around, she doesnt want to expose them.... I do fully understand where she is coming from and the culture/place she is living in but it still hurts. Hes is my ds after all.

I am lucky though that a cousin offered to have us on Thu night for lighting and for a shabbos meal, so we can spend time together ds and I, as he studies oot term time. and is not worried re his kids being influenced by my harmless son.....


OP, I see good things for all of you. For your relationship with your son and for your son, for having you, and for his having the ability to edit himself. That shows maturity and control, which will stand him well in his journey through life. I daven that all the good stuff only deepens. Hatzlacha!
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MitzadSheini




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 12:08 pm
What Greenfire said. What Pink Fridge said.

AVI Fishoff now!

Also- you say that your ds does not break Shabbas in public. Well then if no one tells anybody that he does this then no one else SHOULD know, because everyone else has a mitzvah to NOT speak Lashon Hara and to not BELIEVE Lashon Hara and to judge EVERY ONE lchav zchus. Which means that the only thing that is visible is the long hair, and last time I checked EXCLUDING another Jew is a much bigger Aveira than not getting a haircut...
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 12:46 pm
Thank you for your replies.

Ds cannot sleep at the friend (not a relative) beacause there is not enough room. He can come into the house but not when the kids are around.

both our xdh are both otd and its her way of dealing with it atm, she has young impressionable kids, so I need to understand her reasoning. And if ds who is a young adult (and chose this way of life atm,) asks I will have to tell him but I hope it will not come to this and can manage to avoid an uncomfortable situation. he would have to understand that some peolpe can cope with diversity bettert than others.

I don't feel that I am not welcome because of him, its just not a nice feeling when a friend struggles to cope with it, otoh can I expect her to manage my challenges????
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 12:48 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
OP, I see good things for all of you. For your relationship with your son and for your son, for having you, and for his having the ability to edit himself. That shows maturity and control, which will stand him well in his journey through life. I daven that all the good stuff only deepens. Hatzlacha!


thank you, this means a lot to me. I try my very best to love and accept him, show it and express it to him.....
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amother
OP


 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 12:51 pm
MitzadSheini wrote:
What Greenfire said. What Pink Fridge said.

AVI Fishoff now!

Also- you say that your ds does not break Shabbas in public. Well then if no one tells anybody that he does this then no one else SHOULD know, because everyone else has a mitzvah to NOT speak Lashon Hara and to not BELIEVE Lashon Hara and to judge EVERY ONE lchav zchus. Which means that the only thing that is visible is the long hair, and last time I checked EXCLUDING another Jew is a much bigger Aveira than not getting a haircut...


very true, I say the same. BUT there are many people who judge things from the chitzoinios and its something only we can teach our children. This is the sociaty today unfortunately who looks at looks only...
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Greenbelle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 12:53 pm
I agree that the host has a right to have whomever they want,
and not to have whomever they are uncomfortable with.

BUT

If I had a chance to speak to the host, I would say this:

Children are usually influenced only by people in whom they are invested, and have contact with on a regular basis.

A one-time shabbos guest who is publicly respectful of halacha but looks a bit different
(Long hair, colored shirt or T shirt etc) will NOT influence your children, especially if they are happy at home and not looking for another way.

No need to be worried. Just spread the love and good cheer.

I would never go where my child is not welcome. Just saying.
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imorethanamother




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 7:33 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I am going oot for shabbos and ds is otd (not in public) has a ponytail/shulder length hair.
I am going for a family simcha and hope all my family will be ok as some have not seen ds in a couple of years.

I am sleeping by a close friend, without him, as she has no space, and she said that she does not want ds to come to her house when her kids are around, she doesnt want to expose them.... I do fully understand where she is coming from and the culture/place she is living in but it still hurts. Hes is my ds after all.

I am lucky though that a cousin offered to have us on Thu night for lighting and for a shabbos meal, so we can spend time together ds and I, as he studies oot term time. and is not worried re his kids being influenced by my harmless son.....


This is so painful! As everyone who is amazing said on this thread, only go where your children are welcome. ALL your children. I have a very similar situation, and I quickly learned who my real friends are.

There are good people out there! Don't waste time on the ones who don't accept you. And by "you", we all mean "your family".

Feel free to PM me anytime. You're amazing, OP!
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Learning




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 7:39 pm
I think when it involves kids it is ok to not want a young man with a ponytail at your house as a guest. It is not mean. It doesn’t mean she is not a good friend. She just want her kids to keep their innocence.
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chestnut




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 7:51 pm
I feel it's unfair to make this host a villain. The OP said that both of their XDH are OTD, so I'm sure, her friend deals with enough things if her ex is in her kids' lives and can't be blamed for trying not to expose her young kids to it. She is obviously going through hard times herself.
In addition, OP said there's no room for her son to sleep there. She didn't say anywhere that her son doesn't have a place to stay.
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Wed, Dec 25 2019, 8:13 pm
Hugs! It's a hard place to be. I have an OTD daughter, and it's painful as hell. I tell her siblings, it's our place to love her, not judge her. At the same time, I know it makes other people uncomfortable. They think it's contagious or something.
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