He is not welcome | Imamother

mommy3b2c

Wed, Dec 25 2019, 8:34 pm

Learning wrote:

I think when it involves kids it is ok to not want a young man with a ponytail at your house as a guest. It is not mean. It doesn’t mean she is not a good friend. She just want her kids to keep their innocence.

Innocence? Oh please!

Children stay frum because they are taught to love yiddishkeit through warmth and positive experiences. Not because they are shielded from people with ponytails. Banging head

imasimchale

Thu, Dec 26 2019, 4:13 am

I can relate to your pain and also to your friend's. When I'd walk with my ponytailed, no yarmulka son in my super frum neighborhood the looks were crushing. Then there were the few angels who would smile at him, "even" shake his hand and wish him well. They are saving our son! We give him unconditional love, look for his good (it's there and it's big!), and try to feel his pain (every Yid otd is in deep spiritual pain; also the pain of the rejections/hurt/etc that he went thru as a child and teenager).
Your friend is trying her best, confused and hurt. She needs you; she may have noone else that can understand what she's going through. She may still be showing knee/jerk reaction if it is still raw.

"both our xdh are both otd and its her way of dealing with it atm, she has young impressionable kids, so I need to understand her reasoning."

I'm sending you love and a hug and all the strength in the world! Ha-Shem loves you, feels your pain and WILL help. You will beH have nachas from your son; I'm sure in many ways you do already.

I very, very often repeat to myself:

Be happy
Show them unconditional love and believe in them!!
Daven, daven, daven

in that order, yes in that order. (Sometimes I switch the last 2, but the 1st is always 1st!). When I'm not happy, I'm low in showing love, faith and in davening.

May Ha-Shem put happiness in your heart.

imasimchale

Thu, Dec 26 2019, 4:55 am

"When I'd walk with my ponytailed, no yarmulka son in my super frum neighborhood the looks were crushing."

Sorry if I spoke loshon hora about my "super frum" neighborhood. Full of good people who probably don't know how to react or are afraid to reach out because they may be misunderstood or rejected.. And maybe the "looks" are more in my mind that what they were thinking, feeling, or wanting to project. They may have been thinking about the dentist! And I was looking for the "worst".Maybe they think that by showing disdain they are urging the kid to become stronger and return. Who knows??
Sorry my dear neighbors! May you never be tested with this! May we all do ratzon Ha-Shem; feel and predominantly show love for every Jew. If "smol docheh" is what's needed, may we do it for His sake and with the right intentions and dosage. I's not easy, but its certainly possible when we realize it's all from Ha-SHem who loves us and does ONLY kindness for our (everlasting) good.

Hatzlacha; hope your Shabbos is better than you can imagine!

my mama

Thu, Dec 26 2019, 2:11 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Innocence? Oh please!

Children stay frum because they are taught to love yiddishkeit through warmth and positive experiences. Not because they are shielded from people with ponytails. Banging head

Amen to that! I try to teach my kids that even though other people may look different from us and talk differently they are still Yidden and Hashem loves them just as much.

amother

Fri, Dec 27 2019, 4:03 am

imasimchale wrote:

I think people don't mean it in a mean way but are just unaware and ignorant how to act in an uncomfortable situation like this.
Often its not thought through properly and the easiest way to deal with it is to just avoid it rather than deal with it.
How many dont wear a ponytail but the right outside appearance but act otd in private?

abound

Fri, Dec 27 2019, 5:28 am

I understand your pain and it is crushing! I hope you merit to have much yiddishe nachas from him in the near future.

Though I would not do things like your friend, I do not think it is fair to paint her as a villain. (I know you are not, but other ppl on this thread are)
She has children that are exposed to an OTD father and she does not want them to think that they can choose that too, by seeing another child who did choose to go the way of his father. Logically it won't work, if her children want to be frum they will and if not they have their father to go with. Emotionally she feels like she is protecting them, may no one ever feel this woman's pain and confuse-ment.

amother

Salmon

Fri, Dec 27 2019, 5:42 am

Op, I just want to say that I think it’s amazing that even though your ds is doing his own thing now, he still wants to spend shabbos with you and family!! Do you realize how special that is?? It means that he feels your love and acceptance. And he’s accepting your love! Those positive feelings will take him far in life.
I’m going through a hard time with my own ds, so this is something I picked up on. Someone who I was speaking to for guidance told me that my ds will only be able to come back if he feels our love and good feelings towards him even when he is not home.
Kol hakovod to you!!
May your shabbos plans work out well and be enjoyable and comfortable the whole time.

amother

Plum

Fri, Dec 27 2019, 7:33 am

I have a few nephews that are OTD and I accept them in my home cause they are family and they are also respectful to my rules. But seriously I’m not sure I would want my kids to see this if they were young and it wasn’t people we usually see etc. mine is family so I don’t have a choice if was a friends son I would allow them In my house if there hair was Short and they followed my rules.

amother

Oak

Fri, Dec 27 2019, 9:32 am

I dont think we can judge that friend as she clearly is suffering too in her own way and if we judge her, we are doing what she is accused of(judging ops son).

I was raised around different type of Jews and had irreligious relatives who like ops son was very respectful of our halachos so we got along and my mom who is ultra religious didnt alienate the "otd" relatives.

However, my mil did alienate her tod relatives and my dh grew up naively thinking that if you didnt "dress religious " you are not Jewish.

I specifically teach my kids that some jews dont keep everything but are still jewish and . ....just like kiruv rabbis bring all types of "pony tailed or..." jews into their homes for shabbos or.....I want my kids to understand....

However, we cant understand the friend bec she went through the pain of her xdh going otd... so we need to take a step back and not judge her ..

OP, you seem very loving and understanding both towards your son and friend, and I wish you hatzlacha and happiness.

amother

Fri, Dec 27 2019, 10:14 am

I want to thank each one for your support, wishes and blessings!

I know im very lucky that ds isn't rebellious, just otd bec he chose that for now.....
Im lucky that he joined me for the simcha this week regardless that he had an otd shabbos last week. He adapts to wherever he goes.....
Im grateful to Hashem for all this and lots lots more.... even though it wasn't easy at first when I started seeing repetition of his fathers behaviour....