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Anyone going to start daf yomi?
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amother




Oak
 

Post  Thu, Jan 09 2020, 2:01 am
malki2 wrote:
I will tell you that your great great grandmother with her Emunah Peshuta, who may even have been illiterate, had a much deeper understanding of our religion than you will ever have.


Sorry for not answering before, since this was addressed to me (I just got home from a chassuna), but WADR,you don’t know me (or my grandmother).
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amother




Oak
 

Post  Thu, Jan 09 2020, 2:12 am
chicco wrote:
Also, the "Bruriah incident" reflects more poorly on her husband than on Bruriah herself.


Agreed times ten. It always upsets me, when those who (most likely) don’t come up to her toe, sneer at Bruria. The story doesn’t reflect poorly on Bruria at all, and it doesn’t prove the point it is supposed to make. In the story that is told, she was set up and was enticed repeatedly, and gave in after many days. . . How many stories are there of men (including great talmidei chachamim) who couldn’t control themselves for an instant (let alone many days) and performed prodigious feats to satisfy their desires for women, whom they didn’t even know . . . It seems like she held out for much longer than most men in her position would have - the very opposite of the point it is trying to make. I don’t see how the story of Bruria (even if true) proves anything at all . . .
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amother




Oak
 

Post  Thu, Jan 09 2020, 2:34 am
malki2 wrote:
I was told not to post anymore on this thread, but I’ll answer this question as it was posed directly to me. I don’t believe that it’s the content of the Gemara that is the issue per se, because as you said, no one has an issue with meforshim which are all based on Torah shebe’al peh, and women in your world quote Gemaras right and left, and I could include myself in this as well. What I believe the issue to be is the analytical aspect of the Gemara which in a way is somewhat incongruous to the mechanics of the female mind which was the point of contention between Rabbi Meir and Bruriah. I know that this doesn’t sound very feministic and will likely not take this debate into a better place, but it’s my answer nonetheless.


I particularly love the analytical aspect of the Gemara, and I don’t find it to be at all incongruous to the mechanics of my (female) mind (which btw - I don’t find to be significantly different from a male mind).

In any case, as was quoted at the Siyum Hashas, when asked why not be a Zevulun, instead of a Yissachar, if they both get the same Olam Haba’ah, the answer was that the Yissachar gets a much better Olam Hazeh. I couldn’t agree more! The daf yomi (and other Gemara) that I have learned over the past couple of years has enriched my life tremendously. I have gained a much deeper understanding of our religion, I have increased my performance of mitzvos and have become more midakdek in those I was already doing (thanks to my greater understanding). I have also increased my learning in other areas, as well. My daily learning, has increased my level of involvement in our religion and intensified my connection with our Creator.

I’m not here to tell anyone that they have to learn (especially if their family responsibilities do not allow them the time), but I truly believe that those who do not learn are losing out (whether they realize it or not).
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amother




OP
 

Post  Thu, Jan 09 2020, 3:27 am
As the OP of this thread can I respectfully ask that debate be contained to the other thread?

Think of This Thread as Messechet Resources, that thread is Massechet Debate.

Ok?

Now if anyone is interested, I have found this site to be a great resource

https://www.dafyomiyicc.org/?s.....DIR]=

The Shiurim are 15-25 minutes a page, it seems (I'm using the 13th cycle archive), which gives you a bit more material than an 8 minute summary, but quite a bit easier to squeeze into the day than 45-60. In addition he has amazing amazing notes.
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malki2




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Jan 09 2020, 5:24 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
As the OP of this thread can I respectfully ask that debate be contained to the other thread?

Think of This Thread as Messechet Resources, that thread is Massechet Debate.

Ok?



Absolutely. Will do.

Anyways I’ve made my points already and also ticked off more people that I expected. So I’m done for now either way.

Hashkafic differences aside, best of luck to all of the Lomdos who are attempting this great undertaking. As it says,

אחד המרבה ואחד הממעיט ובלבד שיכוין את לבו לשמים.

And, in all seriousness, maybe you guys should start an ongoing thread where you post your personal questions on the daf so that they can be discussed communally. Hatzlacha Rabba!
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Jan 09 2020, 7:35 pm
ectomorph wrote:
I'm Going to learn daf yomi. After I daven a full davening 3x a day, and learn parsha and halacha daily, it would be a nice addition.

All women learning daf yomi, make sure you daven and say birchas hatorah.

It's not an intellectual exercise. Torah creates reality and is not defined by it.


Actually it is a big mahlokes achronim if women say birchas ha Torah they learn

Is the Torah they learn a chefza of Torah

Or is it just hechsher mitzva like buikding a succa
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Jan 09 2020, 10:05 pm
saw50st8 wrote:
You can have a deep understand of Tanach, but if you are trying to learn about the development of halacha, haskafa and basic Jewish philosophy, you need a strong background in all of TSBP.


You are replying to my questioning the assertion that without learning gemara women won't have a deep understanding of our religion. I don't remember who asserted that.
The way I understood it is, without learning gemara, we only have a superficial Yiddishkeit. That might not be what the poster meant, but that's how it comes across.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Jan 09 2020, 10:11 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
Do you realize how much of what you know about Yiddishkeit actually comes from the gemarah? Do you know how many times I'm thinking of a story to illustrate a point and a story from the gemarah comes to mind? Of course, I heard it third hand, as a by the way...

So I'm thinking, why do I learn things third hand? Why don't I learn things first hand?


Go for it. If you want to, if you can. I can't. I don't have the background, and frankly I don't have the inclination either. There is so much more Torah study that I find satisfying.
Since I don't have the mitzvah of ameilus that men have, but do have a mitzvah to learn what will enhance my avodah, I can use "satisfying" as a barometer for what I devote myself to. I learn one on one with some women, weekly, attend five weekly shiurim, read, and listen to wonderful content. This is me, this is how I'm wired.

I don't want to be patronized.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Jan 09 2020, 10:13 pm
And apologies for my recent more debate-thread posts, but I'm not going to cut and paste all these posts that I'm merely responding to.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jan 10 2020, 6:15 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
Do you realize how much of what you know about Yiddishkeit actually comes from the gemarah? Do you know how many times I'm thinking of a story to illustrate a point and a story from the gemarah comes to mind? Of course, I heard it third hand, as a by the way...

So I'm thinking, why do I learn things third hand? Why don't I learn things first hand?


We've all learned Pirkei Avos. That doesn't mean I have the skills, etc. to learn Yevamos.

I'm going to copy and paste this with some other ideas in the debate thread.
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jan 10 2020, 6:21 am
amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
This is my second cycle. I did learn some Gemara in Ramaz, so I’m obviously MO. But in my town, the only orthodox synagogue is chabad and the rabbis there were also supportive. I listened to online podcasts from dafyomi4women (Michelle Farber’s Shiur) and Rabbi Rosen’s - I’d listen while cooking, laundry, etc and I have a long commute and carpooling, errands to run,etc. it cut out most of my available free time but I found that I honestly wasted that before. I don’t need to watch the Crown or Call the Midwife or spend so much time online. There is a daf yomi 8 minute segment on the ou all daf app (and there’s a lot of extra content there that makes learning daf very convenient). I used the Koren but used the ArtScroll when I was at shul for my kids bar mitzvah lessons, etc. I liked both. I’ll get the Hebrew only paperback volumes when I have more $$$ to do so because I like reading from a book but the large volumes are hard to travel with. I won’t get into the should women learn Gemara question - that’s for everyone to answer with themself and their rabbi.

One thing I can say that it contributed positively to as a mother and a wife as that it enhanced my discussions with dh. I found that it gave me a broader base of torat imechah - and yes, I’m starting the OU women’s initiative on nach yomi too. It made me put down the cellphone and focus more on discussions with my kids and husband - because I’d already spent an hour or so on daf I made the most of my other time with my family. As a family we agree that daf yomi has made me a more patient mother with more Torah knowledge to give to my children. I’m not in imamother much but I feel very emotional about all the good that we’ve reaped as a family from my studying the daf. Also learning the origin and why for the halachot deepened my commitment to them, and to my tefilah.

I’m going through a long painful illness that may end up being terminal. I needed something new as my relationship with tefilah was often one of asking G-d for health and being disappointed when that didn’t happen. Yes, I know there’s more to tefilah than that - but it’s a normal human response to a difficult situation. Whereas I learned Daf Yomi lishmat Torah - I didn’t expect anything in return or hope for anything in return. This changed my approach to tefilah and I finally was able to - after many years into the cycle - to learn and internalize that I don’t pray to change things but because it changes me. It helped me come to terms with my prognosis. Of course, this could be true for any type of Torah studying but for me daf yomi helped.

Anon because of the info about my health - my children don’t know the gravity of my illness and b”h I will have a refuah shlemah and they will never need to know.


You are an inspiration.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jan 10 2020, 6:29 am
naturalmom5 wrote:
Actually it is a big mahlokes achronim if women say birchas ha Torah they learn

Is the Torah they learn a chefza of Torah

Or is it just hechsher mitzva like buikding a succa


If you say birchas haTroah in the morning anyway, you're covered, right?
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jan 10 2020, 6:31 am
JoyInTheMorning wrote:
Just a quick update. So far, so good. I am doing each daf with Michelle Cohen Farber's podcast and the Gemara open in front of me. If at some point there are days that won't work, I will just do the podcast, but ideally I want to learn from the text as well as listening to someone speaking.

It's not perfect. This is a really bad time for me. But you know what? 2019 was also really bad, as was 2018, 2017, and 2016. I have to go back to 2013 to find a year that wasn’t so hard. I can’t wait for a convenient time. Life happens. Yes, I could always start in the middle of the cycle. But I’ve been saying that for years. There is something to starting when everyone is excited. Enthusiasm is contagious.

A few years ago, the person who was then the rav of the shul I was going to gave a Dvar Torah where among other things he spoke about his having started Daf Yomi a while back. He said he had always thought that Daf Yomi was what dilettantes did, that it wasn’t for serious learners. He was (and is) an incredibly deep learner. But he said that as he had continued in Daf Yomi, he found that it was changing him in many ways for the good. He found that it started off the day on just the right note. He found that there was so much that he learned in each daf, and he kept connecting to it in everything else he learned that day.

I’m just on day 4. I have only completed 3 dapim; I actually couldn’t get through yesterday’s daf until this morning. I got home at 11 PM at night, and only made it through ¼ of the podcast before I realized I wasn’t focusing. So I went to sleep and got up earlier this morning to finish up. Who knows what will happen? But so far, I have found that each day has been wonderful. Doing the daf really has brought blessing to at least the past few days.

It’s ironic that this is happening now. I’ve mentioned that Gemara is something I’ve been interested in learning since I was a teenager. I love the logic and reasoning of the Gemara. In the past few years, though, I’ve become re-interested in Tanach. I love giving Divrei Torah in Tanach. As Walter Fisher has said, we live our lives and make our decisions based on stories that we identify with, not necessarily on arguments. Tanach seems more relevant to me now. So it’s ironic that now is the time that I’ve made that leap to try to learn a massive amount of Gemara. Obviously, learning Gemara doesn’t mean I can’t continue with Tanach, but each day is finite.

And on the other hand, it isn’t ironic -- because my recent re-interest in Tanach means I’m more familiar with all the pesukim that each daf brings, and this makes it easier for me to understand the daf. So it’s all good.

I hope I’ll keep updating. I worry about what will happen on Shabbat. Does Michelle Cohen Farber do a shiur on motza’ei Shabbat? Or will we be on our own then? Stay tuned.


I am inspired by you as well. I am trying a very similar approach to yours except that the shiur I'm listening to is from Real Clear Daf app. I'm also finding that learning the daf is affecting me in very positive ways, making me more careful to daven and other things. I started the last few dapim of Nidda and seeing the roots of the halachot we keep was fascinating. Baruch Hashem I'm in the middle of daf zayin though I don't know if I'll manage to finish before Shabbat.
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jan 10 2020, 6:34 am
malki2 wrote:
And shame on anyone for thinking that learning Gemara will make her a better Jew than her grandmother.


I don't think learning daf yomi will make me a better Jew than my grandmother or than anyone else. I think it will make me a better Jew than if I didn't learn.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jan 10 2020, 6:40 am
Aylat wrote:
I started the last few dapim of Nidda and seeing the roots of the halachot we keep was fascinating.
.


I completely hear this. I remember a line from the must read biography of Rav Gustman, zt"l, that anyone who's going to be a posek needs to go through the whole Shas.

But it is important to stress that people can thoroughly know halacha without seeing the sources inside. I know of several major poskim/baalei halacha who are also excellent educators whose students really know halacha l'maaseh and I should mention that their students include men too, who are grateful to have learned halacha l'maaseh systematically.

What I think is really important in any school with a strong halacha curriculum is to have classes that give the students a feeling of enthusiasm for living halacha, and that comes from Tanach, history, Ivrit, machshava, general knowledge curricula.

But I have to end with repeating: I appreciate how learning inside can be enhancing and invigorating and challenging.

(And I should mention I got up early today. So did my husband, as he does everyday. He's not on Imafather, he's learning with his pre work, first chavrusa of the day.)
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jan 10 2020, 6:43 am
ectomorph wrote:
I'm Going to learn daf yomi. After I daven a full davening 3x a day, and learn parsha and halacha daily, it would be a nice addition.

All women learning daf yomi, make sure you daven and say birchas hatorah.

It's not an intellectual exercise. Torah creates reality and is not defined by it.


I'm also going to strengthen my commitment to davening, as a priority for a woman it comes before learning Gemara. BUT much of my daf learning is happening while I'm nursing the baby or driving (listening to a shiur), times when I can't daven. Also, like the story of the man who had 15 minutes a day to learn and asked whether he should learn Gemara or mussar and was told to learn mussar because then he'd realise he can find more than 15 minutes to learn. Similarly, the theoretical Gemara debates inspires me to be more committed overall eg to check the halacha of something I'm doubtful about, whereas learning only straight halacha do's and don't's turns me off. As for parsha, I have learned sedra with Rashi and Targum for several cycles. Chazara is always important, but and I am wanting something new.
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jan 10 2020, 6:45 am
malki2 wrote:
Absolutely. Will do.

Anyways I’ve made my points already and also ticked off more people that I expected. So I’m done for now either way.

Hashkafic differences aside, best of luck to all of the Lomdos who are attempting this great undertaking. As it says,

אחד המרבה ואחד הממעיט ובלבד שיכוין את לבו לשמים.

And, in all seriousness, maybe you guys should start an ongoing thread where you post your personal questions on the daf so that they can be discussed communally. Hatzlacha Rabba!


Malki2, this quote is from Brachot 5b that we just learned on Wednesday. So appropriate that you quoted it here!
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jan 10 2020, 6:50 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
As the OP of this thread can I respectfully ask that debate be contained to the other thread?

Think of This Thread as Messechet Resources, that thread is Massechet Debate.

Ok?

Now if anyone is interested, I have found this site to be a great resource

https://www.dafyomiyicc.org/?s.....DIR]=

The Shiurim are 15-25 minutes a page, it seems (I'm using the 13th cycle archive), which gives you a bit more material than an 8 minute summary, but quite a bit easier to squeeze into the day than 45-60. In addition he has amazing amazing notes.


Can we have an additional thread that is questions and discussions points from each daf? Definitely not debate and also not resources, which is great to have here. Did someone start one already? If not, I'm happy to do so.
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jan 10 2020, 6:54 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:


Now if anyone is interested, I have found this site to be a great resource

https://www.dafyomiyicc.org/?s.....DIR]=

The Shiurim are 15-25 minutes a page, it seems (I'm using the 13th cycle archive), which gives you a bit more material than an 8 minute summary, but quite a bit easier to squeeze into the day than 45-60. In addition he has amazing amazing notes.


Great!

Another resource: for those who have a bit more time, the app Real Clear Daf. An average of an hour's shiur each day, and it also has the daf in two formats - one the classic page as it is printed in the Gemara, and one split into sections with an English translation/explanation each section. So if you don't have a sefer with you, you can still follow in the text. The Gemara format also has a great feature, with the words he's currently explaining highlighted in yellow, so it's easier to follow inside or to pick up where you left off.
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sequoia




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jan 10 2020, 7:25 am
Aylat wrote:
I don't think learning daf yomi will make me a better Jew than my grandmother or than anyone else. I think it will make me a better Jew than if I didn't learn.


Yes Salut Cheers

I’m not a better anything than my grandma. This is so weird.
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