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Anyone going to start daf yomi?
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amother




Oak
 

Post Sun, Jan 05 2020, 3:42 pm
My 2 cents fwiw - We say every morning that Torah is “Morasha Kehillat Yaakov.” Are we not included in Kehillat Yaakov?
We say every day in Birchas HaTorah “V’nihiyeh anachnu, v’tze’etza’einu, v’tze’etza’ei amcha Bais Yisrael, kulanu yod’ei sh’mecha v’lomdei Torasecha l’shma.” Are we not included in anachnu and or tze’etza’ei amcha Bais Yisrael, or kulanu?
As far as I know, Torah was given to women, as well as men - and we have a right (even if no obligation) to learn it.

There are many interpretations regarding the advice to fathers not to teach their daughters Torah, and one that is commonly held is that fathers should not force it on their daughters, especially when they are young, because the daughters may not take it seriously, and it may lead to a bad outcome, however a girl/woman of good character, who actively seeks Torah learning is not assumed to be in the category of one who will not take it seriously. In addition, I have never seen anywhere that a woman is prohibited from learning on her own, or that someone else is prohibited to teach her. Also, even with regard to fathers, there are differences of opinion - e.g. Ben Azzai held that a father is required to teach his daughter(s) Torah (although that has not become the accepted position.)

As far as not having time to learn - Lakol zman v’eis. When my children were younger, I had less time (and also learning was not as easily accessible as it is now). Now that my children are older, it is more easy to find some time. In addition with the easy access to podcasts, etc. it is easy listen while commuting, driving, folding laundry, sitting on exercise bicycle etc. On occasion, I have to split up (or make up) the Daf, but for almost two years, I have been able to keep up.

Again, I highly recommend Rabbi Shalom Rosner’s podcasts, if you can fit them in. You will gain a wealth of knowledge about your own religion - and why wouldn’t you want that? Try it for a week or two and see if you can make it work. You can always quit, if it doesn’t work for you. . .
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amother




Oak
 

Post Sun, Jan 05 2020, 4:39 pm
etky wrote:
Has anyone stuck with it without listening to podcasts?
I really prefer to just read. It's hard for me to listen when I'm not actually in a shiur.
I attend a weekly gemara shiur for women but we go really slowly.
Honestly, the thought of a daf a day is daunting. But if anyone can recommend a good site I think I may take a stab at it.


Are you in the New York area? If so, would you be willing to provide info on the Shiur? I would love a Gemara Iyun Shiur, but I don’t know of any in my area?
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 05 2020, 8:31 pm
amother [ Ivory ] wrote:
I don’t understand why ladies would learn gemara which is for men. I barely have time to daven and say tehillim everyday and if I have time to learn I open a Chumash to that weeks parsha. Who has time for the daf? Which is hard to learn and has to be reviewed over and over


Every single lady who has said this to me , has plenty of time to go shopping, and talk about Shells, and sheitels, and who got engaged, and occasionally Cosmopolitan magazine..

Its all about priorities...
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amother




Oak
 

Post Sun, Jan 05 2020, 8:36 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
Every single lady who has said this to me , has plenty of time to go shopping, and talk about Shells, and sheitels, and who got engaged, and occasionally Cosmopolitan magazine..

Its all about priorities...


I couldn’t agree with this more. The question is why those vapid and empty activities are more acceptable in our community than learning, which is a mitzvah (even for women) and of actual value. [Sigh]
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Mommyg8




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 05 2020, 8:42 pm
amother [ Oak ] wrote:
I couldn’t agree with this more. The question is why those vapid and empty activities are more acceptable in our community than learning, which is a mitzvah (even for women) and of actual value. [Sigh]


What's wrong with learning Tanach, halacha, or tefillah? Why does it have to be gemarah?
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amother




Oak
 

Post Sun, Jan 05 2020, 8:50 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
What's wrong with learning Tanach, halacha, or tefillah? Why does it have to be gemarah?


Nothing is wrong (and everything is right) with learning any and all of those things, but Gemara is the foundation of Torah sheba’al peh and is essential in order to have any deep understanding of our religion.

(BTW - Mommyg8, from all your thought-out posts and comments, you seem just the kind of individual who might give Daf Yomi a try. You can do it in private from the comfort of your home . . .)
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amother




Puce
 

Post Sun, Jan 05 2020, 8:51 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
What's wrong with learning Tanach, halacha, or tefillah? Why does it have to be gemarah?


Because men do it and it's respected in the frum world. That's why.


Last edited by amother on Mon, Jan 20 2020, 1:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Oak
 

Post Sun, Jan 05 2020, 8:56 pm
imanonymous wrote:
Because men do it and it's respected in the frum world. That's why.


That’s the feminist reason, but my reason is the one in my comment above.
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amother




Khaki
 

Post Sun, Jan 05 2020, 9:15 pm
Where's the spinoff? Never, mind, I found it and commented there, but yes, I am BSD planning to start as soon as I catch up on my 20 or so blatt in Niddah.

As I remarked on another thread about feminism:
I, for example, fell behind in Daf Yomi (about 20 days now) over YT & other things going on.

DH suggested I start Brachos anyhow and do one page of Brachos & one page of Niddah each day.

For myself I know that would be way too confusing. I am just doing my best to do 1 1/2 to 2 pages daily & hope to catch up eventually.

Were I a submissive Isha Keshaira I would take his advice (though it's really only a suggestion). Then again, were I more submissive I would not be learning Gemara at all.
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Mommyg8




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 05 2020, 10:47 pm
amother [ Oak ] wrote:
Nothing is wrong (and everything is right) with learning any and all of those things, but Gemara is the foundation of Torah sheba’al peh and is essential in order to have any deep understanding of our religion.

(BTW - Mommyg8, from all your thought-out posts and comments, you seem just the kind of individual who might give Daf Yomi a try. You can do it in private from the comfort of your home . . .)


I have no foundation for gemarah. I don't know if I can pick up the nuances from Daf Yomi...

The problem with "the privacy of my home" is that my sons will find out about it. As it is I'm already so different, imagine if I start learning daf yomi Can't Believe It .

Those who are in my community - how do you do it? And how do you find the time? Do you feel more fulfilled by learning gemarah than if you would learn chumash?

What about ain yaakov? (I'm thinking of starting that instead)...
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Mommyg8




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 05 2020, 10:48 pm
imanonymous wrote:
Because men do it and it's respected in the frum world. That's why.


Is this a real answer or is this tongue in cheek?

Don't you think women want to learn gemarah so that they can understand Yiddishkeit better?
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Mommyg8




 
 
 
 

Post Sun, Jan 05 2020, 10:51 pm
amother [ Khaki ] wrote:
Where's the spinoff? Never, mind, I found it and commented there, but yes, I am BSD planning to start as soon as I catch up on my 20 or so blatt in Niddah.

As I remarked on another thread about feminism:
I, for example, fell behind in Daf Yomi (about 20 days now) over YT & other things going on.

DH suggested I start Brachos anyhow and do one page of Brachos & one page of Niddah each day.

For myself I know that would be way too confusing. I am just doing my best to do 1 1/2 to 2 pages daily & hope to catch up eventually.

Were I a submissive Isha Keshaira I would take his advice (though it's really only a suggestion). Then again, were I more submissive I would not be learning Gemara at all.


This link is an example of an "isha kesheira". Read this and savor the irony...

https://www.chabad.org/library.....e.htm
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amother




Ecru
 

Post Sun, Jan 05 2020, 11:40 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
This link is an example of an "isha kesheira". Read this and savor the irony...

https://www.chabad.org/library.....e.htm


Um.

Ok that's horrible. ?
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amother




Ecru
 

Post Sun, Jan 05 2020, 11:46 pm
A question for women who learn gemara. How do you address the sxism? For example, ds who's 13 was just telling me he's learning about when a man may proactively invalidate his wife's nedarim! Iow, declare her promises void before she even makes them. Tbh I find it a little unsettling that he's learning this, it feels disrespectful to the wife.
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amother




Oak
 

Post Mon, Jan 06 2020, 12:01 am
Mommyg8 wrote:
I have no foundation for gemarah. I don't know if I can pick up the nuances from Daf Yomi...

The problem with "the privacy of my home" is that my sons will find out about it. As it is I'm already so different, imagine if I start learning daf yomi Can't Believe It .

Those who are in my community - how do you do it? And how do you find the time? Do you feel more fulfilled by learning gemarah than if you would learn chumash?

What about ain yaakov? (I'm thinking of starting that instead)...


I had no foundation in Gemara (Bais Yaakov education), but I find Rabbi Rosner’s shiurim to be fascinating. He frequently brings up what he calls Shas topics and explains how they are relevant and where they are found in other places in Shas. (You will find that many topics come up again and again in different places in Shas.). He also brings in many related t’shuvos from Rishonim and even more recent Achronim, and often brings up Halacha l’ma’aseh issues related to the Daf. After only a couple of years, there’s a tremendous amount that I don’t know, but I know about a billion more things about our religion than before I started learning. I hope to gain more in the coming years. (I also plan to try the Zichru program and/or additional chazarah in order to retain more of what I learn.)

Regarding keeping it quiet, as I have said before my husband and kids (both married and unmarried) know about it, but my parents, siblings, friends and neighbors don’t. I do think it would be hard to keep it from those who live in my home.

Regarding time, I frequently listen while on my exercise bike. I open e-Daf on my iPad to follow along inside. I may also listen while cooking, folding laundry, driving, or during lunch break at work. On occasion, I may miss a day or have to break up the Daf, but I always make it up. As was said many times during the siyum haShas, having that daily schedule/cycle motivates me to avoid skipping a day, because if I fall too far behind, it would be too hard to catch up. It’s a great motivator.

When I started, I was also unsure if I could understand it or if I would enjoy it, but I quickly became addicted to Rabbi Rosner’s shiurim, and I would be very sad if I had to give them up.
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amother




Oak
 

Post Mon, Jan 06 2020, 12:11 am
amother [ Ecru ] wrote:
A question for women who learn gemara. How do you address the sxism? For example, ds who's 13 was just telling me he's learning about when a man may proactively invalidate his wife's nedarim! Iow, declare her promises void before she even makes them. Tbh I find it a little unsettling that he's learning this, it feels disrespectful to the wife.


I will admit that I am occasionally brought to tears, by all the sexism (and it’s ubiquitous), but when I can put all that on the back burner, I truly enjoy the learning. Every once in a while, my husband advises me to stop (due to the pain it causes me), but I always end up going back for more.

At the end of the day, it is what it is, and not knowing about it, doesn’t change the facts. I’m not one who subscribes to the “Ignorance is bliss” philosophy. I’d rather know the truth - however painful - than live in a fool’s paradise.

Remember: “Ignorance is Bliss,” but “Knowledge is Power.”
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amother




OP
 

Post Mon, Jan 06 2020, 12:21 am
amother [ Ecru ] wrote:
Um.

Ok that's horrible. ?


What's horrible? The husband was horrible, the wise rabbi put him right.
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amother




Ecru
 

Post Mon, Jan 06 2020, 1:17 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
What's horrible? The husband was horrible, the wise rabbi put him right.


Really? It's horrible that she was forced to humiliate herself because disobeying her dh wasn't an option. The degree of control that he had over her. If my dh told me to humiliate myself by spitting in a Rosh yeshiva's face, I simply wouldn't. No second thoughts, not even a second of thought as to whether I should listen. Yet even Rabbi Meir didn't think that not listening to dh in this situation was acceptable.
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amother




Ecru
 

Post Mon, Jan 06 2020, 1:18 am
amother [ Oak ] wrote:
I will admit that I am occasionally brought to tears, by all the sexism (and it’s ubiquitous), but when I can put all that on the back burner, I truly enjoy the learning. Every once in a while, my husband advises me to stop (due to the pain it causes me), but I always end up going back for more.

At the end of the day, it is what it is, and not knowing about it, doesn’t change the facts. I’m not one who subscribes to the “Ignorance is bliss” philosophy. I’d rather know the truth - however painful - than live in a fool’s paradise.

Remember: “Ignorance is Bliss,” but “Knowledge is Power.”


Kol hakavod!
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etky




 
 
 
 

Post Mon, Jan 06 2020, 1:49 am
amother [ Oak ] wrote:
Are you in the New York area? If so, would you be willing to provide info on the Shiur? I would love a Gemara Iyun Shiur, but I don’t know of any in my area?


Sorry, no Sad I'm in Efrat.
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