Should parents reciprocate when they visit their children?

amother

Sapphire

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 6:54 am

When I was in seminary I was also bombarded with meal shabbos and meal requests from my friends being that I had a lot of family in Israel. The girls really gave me heartache about bringing them along. I totally understand you OP. At one point I just told them that my family won't allow me to bring friends, which was actually true! So I would decide either don't invite anymore kids or you'll just have to look the other way... this is the reality of sem girl and yeshiva guys, they need to shnur meals after their parents pay 20,000! I hope my daughter won't go to sem for this reason

amother

Lilac

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 6:55 am

amother [ Hotpink ] wrote:

And even if they provide food, its not a nice yom tov sueda and not a nice atmosphere.
but, regardless, OP should only give what she is able to without any expectation of reciprocity. A nice thank you and a hostess gift is all that can be "expected"

OP was saying she didn't get a hostess gift. We never got anything either. This is just the way some kids are raised.

amother

Ginger

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 7:53 am

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

When I was in seminary I was also bombarded with meal shabbos and meal requests from my friends being that I had a lot of family in Israel. The girls really gave me heartache about bringing them along... this is the reality of sem girl and yeshiva guys, they need to shnur meals after their parents pay 20,000! I hope my daughter won't go to sem for this reason

What an incredibly abhorrent way to look at your peers. You were privileged to have family in Israel and your friends did not. They were forced by circumstance to beg for meals while you on your high horse didn't.

It's one thing if people are begging to be treated to a hotel meal for lots of $$$ and being ungrateful just because. It's another when they are asking for basic hachnosis orchim. If your large family couldn't do it, okay, fine, but you could really work to find more empathy...

amother

Babypink

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 8:19 am

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

You are bringing up a great point.
I think parents should be told before the year starts about proper behavior. How their children should acknowledge their host and how parents can thank these people.

Me to friend Leah:Hi I hear you hosted our friend Sara’s 2 boys and friends for the whole shabbos. They sound like they had an incredible time. And a very uplifting shabbos
Leah: how did you hear about that?
Me: Sara told me
Leah: That’s weird I spoke to Sara a few times since and she didn’t say anything, I thought she didn’t know about it and figured for some reason her boys didn’t want her to know. Why wouldn’t she tell me? I hope I didn’t do anything wrong.

Please ask your child if he or she goes away for shabbos, remind them to take something. And they should tell you who to call for a thank you.

Saying “ I didn’t know my son went “ is not an excuse.Because if he had nowhere to go, mommy would hear about it very quickly.

When DS1 was in yeshiva, I didn't ask where he would be each and every Shabbat. Some weeks he went to friends' families. Some weeks he went to his rebbes. Some weeks he stayed at school. He figured it out himself. What good would telling me do? We don't have any relatives in Israel, and very few friends.

He grew up seeing us bring hostess gifts when we went out for Shabbat, so he knew to do that. Did he always? No clue. But I only got involved once, when I begged a friend to let him sleep on her floor for Sukkot because he couldn't find anywhere else to go; in that instance, I sent a dessert tray myself. Otherwise, he's the one who should be doing the thanking. I mean, I know that DS1 was in Yerushalyim the night of a terror attack; I know that he and his friends were afraid to go back to yeshiva, and wound up staying with someone's parents. But he was the one to thank them.

And it is a time-honored tradition to take your kids' friends out if you visit. Its more or less reciprocal. We hosted about a dozen kids various ngiths when we visited, and took a few more out. I contacted a few parents I knew to let them know that their child was doing well, or to send a photo. I didn't expect thanks.

amother

Gray

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 8:40 am

I have a question about logistics as I will be visiting DD in Sem. soon.
How does one best handle changed friend groups? There are people she was friendly with in September or October, and may have gone out with their parents at the time, but the friendship never fully developed and they ended up falling in with different people and different groups, having little to do with each other, as it does take time for friendships to develop and in the beginning of the year that were finding their ways. It would be weird to take out these girls but not her good friends, who may have previously been friends with other people and not taken her. Can I get pizza or something for everyone in the dorm and be Yotzi? If I make it for her birthday at the same time, does it still count? I am not looking to offend anyone and I want to do right by everyone.
(Btw, she does bring a gift/cake...whenever she goes away for Shabbos, but when taken out to a meal by American parents, I think a heartfelt thank you is sufficient. What would they bring anyway? Flowers for the mom is super weird, wine (even though 18 is legal is israel) is against Sem rules and inappropriate. Do you bring someone marzipan rugalach to a restaurant?? That is bazaar. Seriously, please advise as manners are something I take very seriously).

amother

Sapphire

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 9:46 am

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

Lol you took out half the things I said. Yes I think it is very rude to beg to be invited if my relatives did not want me to bring friends. You must be one of those girls that begged to come even though I was told not to bring anyone.

gamanit

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 9:51 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I hear the kids talking at the meal where they ate or what trips they went on or going on. Lot of these kids are from simple backgrounds.

Did they say how much money they spent on their chol hamoed trips? You may be assuming a greater cost than the reality. I went to tzfas by bus for a cost of ₪90 round trip. Ok, not pocket change (for me anyhow) but not a crazy amount of money. My seminary arranged and paid for one other chol hamoed trip.

I don't have much close family in Israel and my parents did not come visit me in Israel. I went to my not-very-close relatives for meals and gave a gift once at the beginning of the year and once at the end of the year. Should I have brought them something each time I went for a meal? I did try to help them out in the kitchen and with the kids. I didn't have unlimited funds though. I don't see how it would make sense for my mother to get involved in thanking my hosts in any way unless she was involved in arranging the meal in the first place.

amother

Gray

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 10:20 am

amother [ Gray ] wrote:

Please advise.

amother

Lilac

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 10:46 am

amother [ Gray ] wrote:

What would be lovely to bring might be a small souvenir like a key chain or a magnet.

amother

Lilac

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 10:48 am

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

It's a terrible attitude that posters have that says since you are fortunate you owe it to rude entitled people. It's a terrible attitude. Neither you nor your relatives owed anyone meals. The girls didn't have any right to make you uncomfortable

amother

Babypink

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 11:10 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

No, you didn't owe it.

But you're missing the problem.

Seminaries, and some yeshivas, close for Shabbat and for yom tov. Which is all well and good if you have plenty of friends and family in Israel, but awful if you don't. Those girls weren't entitled; they were desperate for a place to stay.

amother

Goldenrod

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 11:11 am

Instead of thinking of them as rude...think of them as desperate. Desperation can force someone to be pushy. Which you fortunately didn't have to be. And I lay the blame at the bloated and overpriced seminaries.
A friend of mine (who lived in israel post sem for a few years) told me once, the seminaries exist to give Americans living in Israel jobs (this was pre internet and the possibility of online jobs). And you know what, she was right. Many of those Americans who made aliyah in the 80s and 90s would not have found jobs otherwise.

amother

Lilac

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 11:25 am

amother [ Babypink ] wrote:

Their pressure does not belong on other kids who are innocent in the setting up of the system. BTW they are often not desperate just bored or looking for an upscale treat. The kids have a name for other kids who attach themselves looking for an expensive experience.

The young adults aren't as clueless as some of the posters here. You can't excuse every bad behavior or rudeness. The real world does not tolerate this.

amother

Lilac

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 11:30 am

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

Desperate people don't put pressure on their peers to go to steak houses or other nice places. I would buy the desperate argument if they were asking for bread or peanut butter. It's not desperation. It's entitlement.

amother

Sapphire

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 11:35 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

I agree with this. A lot of my relatives there are wealthy and they wanted to come with me. The sem btw always offered meals if someone didn't have. And yes there were weeks that I stayed in seminary and ate by teachers because my relatives weren't able to have me. But I thought it was really not nice that girls made me feel so guilty for not inviting them

amother

Babypink

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 11:36 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

We were responding to a woman who complained that people asked to spend Shabbat at her relatives' homes. Unless her relatives own Papagaio or something, they're not begging to go to a steak house.

Raisin

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 11:39 am

I'm not sure why people assume that local families hosting seminary students are are more able to afford to host then a family who can afford to stay in a hotel for yom tov. The $15 that a family has to spend on chicken and gefilta fish and vegetables for your child may be more of a loss then the $100 (!!!) a hotel meal costs.

If you invite somebody to a meal, do it wholeheartedly. Don't expect reciprocation.

Encourage your kids to thank hosts, bring nice gifts, offer to help, (especially if you can't afford nice gifts but even if you can) and not to beg for invites.

amother

Hotpink

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 11:45 am

Raisin wrote:

This all the way