Should parents reciprocate when they visit their children?

amother

Lilac

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 3:00 pm

amother [ Babypink ] wrote:

We were responding to a woman who complained that people asked to spend Shabbat at her relatives' homes. Unless her relatives own Papagaio or something, they're not begging to go to a steak house.

That was the place where DC got pressure to be taken out to our last trip. It's not nice. It's rude and entitled behavior.

Please tell me how you justify this that they are desperate. The fact is no one has a need for an upscale experience. It's greed pure and simple.

amother

Goldenrod

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 3:16 pm

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

That is not anything like girls asking to go along to a relative's home for Shabbos because they have no place to go.
I heard a lot of horror stories about girls in places where the dorms closed for shabbos where they pretended they were going somewhere then snuck back into the dorm later and stayed by themselves for shabbos. Including at least two stories of a girl staying completely by herself, alone the entire time. But they were desperate and had no place to go. If nothing else this is a huge safety concern. I know there have been break ins in some dorms where thieves broke in during an "off" shabbos.

amother

Babypink

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 3:27 pm

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

No, people shouldn't clamor to be taken to upscale restaurants. of course, I assume that these are not people whose parents already treated your child to the same type of place. Because, as I said, reciprocation is anticipated, and it would be wrong for your child to accept upscale invitations, and not reciprocate.

Again, however, for the umpteenth time, I was responding to someone who was highly offended that her friends asked to go to her relatives' homes for Shabbat because they had nowhere else to go.

amother

Lilac

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 3:27 pm

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

The system is broken. It is teaching the kids wrong behavior. DD's dorm remains open, and she still gets pressured for Shabbosim. We deliberately looked for situations where our children would not be put in a position of not having a place on Shabbos.

If more parents demanded that, then the seminaries couldn't get away with it.

amother

Babypink

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 3:29 pm

Raisin wrote:

I'm not sure why people assume that local families hosting seminary students are are more able to afford to host then a family who can afford to stay in a hotel for yom tov. The $15 that a family has to spend on chicken and gefilta fish and vegetables for your child may be more of a loss then the $100 (!!!) a hotel meal costs.

If you invite somebody to a meal, do it wholeheartedly. Don't expect reciprocation.

Encourage your kids to thank hosts, bring nice gifts, offer to help, (especially if you can't afford nice gifts but even if you can) and not to beg for invites.

I don't. I think its bizarre to expect random strangers to host kids. DS1 would never have accepted such an arrangement.

amother

Lilac

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 3:31 pm

amother [ Babypink ] wrote:

For the umpteenth time, you can't expect reciprocation. And no, my kids were not treated out.

Pressure is pressure whether it is to a relative's house or for parents to treat.

amother

Goldenrod

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 3:32 pm

Agree parents should demand it.
But asking for a Shabbos invite does not equal asking for an invitation to a restaurant. And the type of people who would do that are the type that have no problem asking for And expecting favors. It's a personality type and is not limited to sem girls. I also think it is weird that there are so many of that type in 1 seminary.

amother

Gray

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 4:10 pm

DDs Sem. is open every Shabbos. It is just socially pathetic to stay in too often or without a chevra.
I understand the appeal and excitement of wanting to be invited, included, selected. Often that is really what it is all about. The girls all have FOMO. There is social climbing involved. And private jokes that stem from who was there (and who wasn't). Nobody wants to be the loser who doesn't get to go. Nobody is turning down an invitation and if they do, it is an insult. Imagine saying, no, I'll pass on a lovely dinner and evening out of school in a fancy place, to rather eat the same yucky den food.
There is a lot of social drama and if you think that in a different Sem the girls are more erlich and more hamish, you are kidding yourself.

DD wants me not to take anyone out when I go. She first of all wants to spend special time with me (I am going alone to see her-no DH,no their kids) She is afraid inviting is not inclusive but rather becomes exclusive and will make more enemies than anything else. People have taken her and I feel the need to reciprocate and as I posted earlier, friend groups have changed so some are barely her friends anymore and others have come and not included her but now she is close with them.
I hate teenage girl drama!!

Back to my question from before- if I get pizza for everyone, is that reciprocating and inclusive or not special and nice enough?
Always happy for advice.

amother

Babypink

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 4:36 pm

amother [ Gray ] wrote:

I'm sure that everyone would love a pizza night, assuming that the sem would allow that.

You don't have to take girls out every night, but its nice to do once or twice, particularly to meet your DD's friends. And it doesn't have to be fancy.

Enjoy your visit.

amother

Lilac

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 4:46 pm

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

A shabbos invite is still a big expense. It's more money than a single meal.

amother

Ginger

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 4:49 pm

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

Lol you took out half the things I said. Yes I think it is very rude to beg to be invited if my relatives did not want me to bring friends. You must be one of those girls that begged to come even though I was told not to bring anyone.

I left the part I was responding to for clarity.

I said specifically okay, if your relatives say no, it is what it is. But you have no empathy for girls with nowhere to go for shabbos? You said your friends were "shnoring". What exactly would you have done if you had no family in EY? Been on your high horse and spent shabbos by yourself?

I had no friends with family in EY. If they had I honesty wouldn't have asked because my mother taught me never to invite myself... it's also not my personality. But I still understand what it is like and why someone might, which clearly you are incapable.

We had a shabbos coordinator who set students up by families for meals except YT which was impossible so we were left with a list to fend for ourselves and if we didn't find, then tuna and challah in the dorm!

The seminary in retrospect should have provided more options but don't blame the girls with no choice.

amother

Lilac

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 5:52 pm

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

The girls did have a choice. They could have tuna and challah in the dorm. It's not nice, but I would have done that before I pressured someone to host me. As someone said, it's a personality thing. My kids never ask for hospitality.

amother

Babypink

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 6:02 pm

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

Because, as you say, you had boatloads of rich relatives they could spend Shabbat with.

No one wants to spend Shabbat alone, with no friends or family, in a dark empty dormitory with a can of tuna and a challah roll. Try it out some time and maybe you'll have a bit of empathy for those girls.

amother

Babypink

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 6:05 pm

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

Well, what should students do on an "off" Shabbos if they have no relatives to invite them?

IMNSHO, the system needs to change.

DS1 occasionally spent Shabbat at another yeshiva that had an "in" Shabbat. And for chol hamoed Sukkot, he rented a place through Air BnB with a few friends in similar circumstances. Not sure how I'd feel about that when its DD1's turn, though.

amother

Sapphire

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 6:06 pm

amother [ Ginger ] wrote:

Where do I say I have no empathy for girls who don't have a meal?! I specifically said I wouldn't want my daughter to go to sem so she shouldn't have to shnor meals. And I had to shnor meals all the time! My relatives were distant relatives and I shnored meals by them! I don't have empathy for girls that asked and I told them I'm so sorry I can't bring any friends and they went on and on putting on a whole song and dance that I'm not taking them with me.
What high horse exactly am I on? Lol you are reminding me of that girl that was stamping her feet to me that I wouldn't take her along for shabbos

amother

Lilac

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 7:03 pm

amother [ Babypink ] wrote:

You're confusing us. I get that they don't want to spend Shabbos alone in the dorm. I am not sure why the dorm necessarily needs to be dark. Long before I would impose on someone, I would stay in the dorm even in the dark. My kids stay in the dorm instead of asking acquaintances to host them. They weren't brought up to not think of others.

amother

Babypink

Tue, Jan 07 2020, 7:14 pm

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

I did confuse you with another poster; apologies.