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The Painful Rejections of Lakewood Schools
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Mommyg8




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 12:30 pm
amother [ Smokey ] wrote:
I'm so sick of this "old Lakewood" myth that unless you subscribe to an all powerful old time vaad and have direct connection to BMG you can't expect anything out of Lakewood. Everyone moving in pays taxes that keep your roads paved, they shop in local stores and support local economy. Stop with the "they can't expect space in OUR schools." The "our" keeps growing and yes we collectivly need solutions but th divisive way some of you old Lakewooders talk is disgusting and elitist.

Also it is completely unreasonable for people to tell op not to be hurt because it's nobodys issue. Sure, the main issue is not enough supply but that creates a situation where the best and most connected, whatever that means to a particular school hanhala, are the people getting the slots easily while everyone else battles it out. The reality of space limit creates an insane pressure and all the gross elitist traits of our society have this space to rear their ugly heads. Please don't pretend it's not so. We can do better.


If you are so sick and tired of this, as you say, then YOU do it. Make a school. Go ahead.

You are the one being divisive here.

And like I said, do you really want your daughter going to a school that is so hyperfocused on tznius and the secular education is lacking? Why don't you open a school that YOU will be happy with?
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small bean




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 12:35 pm
amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:
Not related to my previous posts:
Why do people feel the need to tell people who are in pain that their pain isn't valid or that it's their own fault?


Because it is important to identify a you problem.

If you want to be happy. You need to be clear with what is a you problem and what is a community problem. You will not be happy if you cant take personal responsibility for your issues. You will not be hapoy if there is always something larger then you causing you pain. You will not be happy if you feel entitled to anything.

When my kid complains that her seat in the classroom is not good. We dont balme the teacher. Someone needs to sit in that seat. It is a you problem and you need to come up with a solution.

When I dont get the house I want because someone put in a higher offer. It is not taht person or the agents fault. It is a me problem.

And when I dont get a job because the supply is so great and they found someo else it is not the communities fault that there are so many people with the same skill set.

And it bothers me when I see people who dont underatand the basics of how things work in this world, and feel entitled. Get upset and hurt when they can be happy people.

Im sad for all the people who live such angry and hurt lives. I think pain is a choice and I think it is sad that people choose pain.
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 12:36 pm
sky wrote:
What in the world does first come first we’ve mean?
The person who drops off their application first. When does this start?

And what rabbis? The ppl moving to Toms River want nothing to do with bmg or old Lakewood. Yet they expect the community to fundraisers and open schools for them?

It would be like 100s (literally) of non- lubavitchers moving to crown heights and demanding schools to accommodate them.

I’m not familiar with the ins and outs but this rings true.
You don’t see Satmar or Belze complaining. When they come with 20-30 families, they’re already opening a school.
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small bean




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 12:40 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
Because it is. It's how they perceive it.

All of us posting here that are from Lakewood have gone through the same process. We've all suffered rejection at one point or another. Almost everyone I know has gone through the same process.

Hurt is often a matter of how you perceive it, and if you choose to perceive it that way, then you will be hurt. If not, you won't be.


This is exactly true.
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amother




Smokey
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 12:44 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
If you are so sick and tired of this, as you say, then YOU do it. Make a school. Go ahead.

You are the one being divisive here.

And like I said, do you really want your daughter going to a school that is so hyperfocused on tznius and the secular education is lacking? Why don't you open a school that YOU will be happy with?


How would you know that I would be unhappy with a school that is focused on tznius just because I moved to the town later than you? Why don't my children have as much right to a frum education as yours do? What if in my four years in town I have supported more community funds than you have in 20? Why do discussions like these always end up as a "Tom's River" bash. It's ridiculous. There's space and there's plenty of frum infrastructure like kosher and shopping and now we need more schools. The way some people speak is mind boggling.
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amother




Fuchsia
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 12:47 pm
amother [ Smokey ] wrote:
How would you know that I would be unhappy with a school that is focused on tznius just because I moved to the town later than you? Why don't my children have as much right to a frum education as yours do? What if in my four years in town I have supported more community funds than you have in 20? Why do discussions like these always end up as a "Tom's River" bash. It's ridiculous. There's space and there's plenty of frum infrastructure like kosher and shopping and now we need more schools. The way some people speak is mind boggling.

There’s no space and the infrastructure is not set up for this.
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amother




Gold
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 12:48 pm
You can argue abt whether or not people have a right to be upset, but it is not a positive thing for the frum community to have unhappy disenfranchised members. Esp young ones. It doesn't bode well.
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small bean




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 12:51 pm
amother [ Smokey ] wrote:
How would you know that I would be unhappy with a school that is focused on tznius just because I moved to the town later than you? Why don't my children have as much right to a frum education as yours do? What if in my four years in town I have supported more community funds than you have in 20? Why do discussions like these always end up as a "Tom's River" bash. It's ridiculous. There's space and there's plenty of frum infrastructure like kosher and shopping and now we need more schools. The way some people speak is mind boggling.


I dont think she means that you dont like the schools. I think she means find one that is good for you. Personally think they are mostly the same, you can send to most of the schools here and be happy.
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Zehava




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 12:55 pm
amother [ Gold ] wrote:
You can argue abt whether or not people have a right to be upset, but it is not a positive thing for the frum community to have unhappy disenfranchised members. Esp young ones. It doesn't bode well.

That ship has already sailed far, far away.
Every community has a big portion of unhappy members, for different reasons. And you’re right. I see it imploding in the future.
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small bean




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 12:55 pm
amother [ Gold ] wrote:
You can argue abt whether or not people have a right to be upset, but it is not a positive thing for the frum community to have unhappy disenfranchised members. Esp young ones. It doesn't bode well.


The real truth is lakewood is not a community.
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small bean




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 1:03 pm
Typically people being unhappy is not a lakewood problem. It is a you problem and you channeling your anger at the town instead of looking inward.

This was my point the entir time, people choose to be angry at sysytems without taking the time to understand them. Learn to look inward when something doesnt go as expected. Learn to look at the facts on the ground. Learn to think before you react. The happiest people are those that know who they really are inside. Who live a real life without pretense. Who understand that success is not limited to circumstances.

I've had many people in my house over rhe years who have been or are curently otd, and I have never come accross any, that their issue was lakewood. Dig deeper then the surface and there is a lot more to it. A lot of sad and horrible situations that have nothing to do with a town.
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Mommyg8




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 2:35 pm
amother [ Smokey ] wrote:
I'm so sick of this "old Lakewood" myth that unless you subscribe to an all powerful old time vaad and have direct connection to BMG you can't expect anything out of Lakewood. Everyone moving in pays taxes that keep your roads paved, they shop in local stores and support local economy. Stop with the "they can't expect space in OUR schools." The "our" keeps growing and yes we collectivly need solutions but th divisive way some of you old Lakewooders talk is disgusting and elitist.

Also it is completely unreasonable for people to tell op not to be hurt because it's nobodys issue. Sure, the main issue is not enough supply but that creates a situation where the best and most connected, whatever that means to a particular school hanhala, are the people getting the slots easily while everyone else battles it out. The reality of space limit creates an insane pressure and all the gross elitist traits of our society have this space to rear their ugly heads. Please don't pretend it's not so. We can do better.


So I'm re-reading what you wrote, perhaps I didn't understand.

I'm not either "old Lakewood", and my husband never learned in BMG. I truly don't think that anyone means that only people who learned in BMG or who grew up in Lakewood are allowed to live here, otherwise, I wouldn't be here either.

It's truly not about that at all. Anyone who moves to Lakewood has an equal shot at getting into schools.

I have spoken to people who are "old Lakewood" and who's husbands are learning in BMG and they have experienced the same rejection that many of us have experienced.

So it's really not about "old Lakewood" and BMG at all.

I agree there is a problem, everyone agrees there is a problem. You have to be walking around blind and dumb not to realize that there's a problem.

But I too am sick and tired; sick and tired of hearing "Lakewood" bashed, as if Lakewood is a person, a separate entity, with the power to change things. BMG, as far as I know, does not own ONE girl's school. All the schools were started by parents who wanted an education for their children. IIRC, The Cheder started in people's dining rooms and the parents took turns being the Rebbeim (if I don't have the correct history you can correct me, as I said I am not "old Lakewood".

If you are truly sick and tired of the problem, then YOU be part of the solution. There is no mythical "THEY" who is responsible for all this. YOU are responsible. I am responsible. We are all responsible.

Once we get that clear we can continue.

(And you can't compare Lakewood to Chassidish schools, as first of all, Chassidish schools DO have plenty of criteria for joining their schools, and second, each Chassidus is a separate community that has it's own infrastructure and is sort of required to accept their own - although in reality they often don't, but that's a completely different topic. Lakewood is not a Chassidus, there is no Rebbe, and there is no infrastructure unless you build it yourself).
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sky




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 2:38 pm
amother [ Smokey ] wrote:
I'm so sick of this "old Lakewood" myth that unless you subscribe to an all powerful old time vaad and have direct connection to BMG you can't expect anything out of Lakewood. Everyone moving in pays taxes that keep your roads paved, they shop in local stores and support local economy. Stop with the "they can't expect space in OUR schools." The "our" keeps growing and yes we collectivly need solutions but th divisive way some of you old Lakewooders talk is disgusting and elitist.

Also it is completely unreasonable for people to tell op not to be hurt because it's nobodys issue. Sure, the main issue is not enough supply but that creates a situation where the best and most connected, whatever that means to a particular school hanhala, are the people getting the slots easily while everyone else battles it out. The reality of space limit creates an insane pressure and all the gross elitist traits of our society have this space to rear their ugly heads. Please don't pretend it's not so. We can do better.


I never said new kids shouldn’t be accepted to old schools. Of course there should be a space for every kid.

I’m saying don’t move to a town struggling with well known school space issues and then demand That new schools to be built. And besmirch rabbis in Lakewood that font build new schools when you have nothing to do with them.

My DHs family has been in Lakewood for 50 yrs. we didn’t get into schools there is no place.

There are posts on imamother from 12 yrs ago with this exact issue and yet ppl move to Lakewood and are hurt and insulted when it happens to them. It’s not personal. It’s an old problem that keeps growing. And new schools are opened yearly. The demand is just higher.

And as I said those from Lakewood don’t make a big stink when it happens. It seems to be ppl only moving in recently who make a big deal because they are sold promises by realtors and feel hurt that they aren’t given the guaranteed results.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 2:54 pm
small bean wrote:
Why does it matter the reason? If you provide a service, lets say you give art leasons to kids and you only like to give art lessons to peoples whos parrents drive a certain car, anyone who doesnt have that car, should not be insulted, they should get art lessons from someone else.

The private school sysytem is the same. The schools provide a service, called education, they limit their service based on criteria (we usually don't know the criteria - I at least cant tell how my kids schools choose). If you dont fit the criteria, then you don't go. You find anothet service where you do fit. And everyone fits somewhere.


Hate to burst your bubble , bean..

Can I have a restaurant , and post a sign..
NO BLACKS ..NO JEWS
Its a private business, let them eat somewhere else.
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sky




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 3:02 pm
Zehava wrote:
I’m not familiar with the ins and outs but this rings true.
You don’t see Satmar or Belze complaining. When they come with 20-30 families, they’re already opening a school.


I think it’s amazing what satmar and belz and all the other chossidish groups have done. They have opened up so many schools in just a few short years.
They have a unifying umbrella, a rebbe, a local rebbe, and lots of money.

unfortunately there is nothing comparable in the litvish world.

I look at my own rav who works crazy hours for almost no money. Lives in tiny house and literally works 24/7 for the klal with no down time or compensation And then I hear why aren’t rabbis opening schools and I’m not sure what to say.
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small bean




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 3:17 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
Hate to burst your bubble , bean..

Can I have a restaurant , and post a sign..
NO BLACKS ..NO JEWS
Its a private business, let them eat somewhere else.


If you have an eatery and you have no more room there, you can lock people out. If you provide a service limited ro space, you can selectively choose who comes. Think of colleges that are discriminated by grades.

I happen to think these laws are against free matkets and im not a fan of them, but I think that is for anothee thread.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 3:31 pm
So if I see a restaurant that says sorry full to capacity.

And every day I only see white people eating there. That is totally permitted and no one will sue or complain ??
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small bean




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 3:32 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
So if I see a restaurant that says sorry full to capacity.

And every day I only see white people eating there. That is totally permitted and no one will sue or complain ??


You can sue and complain but you if cant prove anything it wont go anywhere.

This is totally for another thread though and really is not about my point. Schools is not discrimination according to the law.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 3:49 pm
ectomorph wrote:
the situation is different because they genuinely do not have enough spots for the children it is not at all like that situation that you described.


OR SO THEY SAY.....
A few $ magically creates more spots
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amother




Smokey
 

Post  Sun, Jan 12 2020, 3:53 pm
Of course the problem is primarily space. But why are the first ones getting spots the richest and most connected?

A lot of ugliness comes out in the school admission process let us not whitewash it by saying it's no one's fault and not personal.

It's everyone's fault. But the people who run the schools are vetting out the best names and most money and sometimes yes change does have to start from the top and trickle down. The process is not even close to equal opportunity and I think that is why it is so painful even though the starting point is lack of supply which even allows school administration to act the way they do. Many schools can open additional classes if they absolutely had to but choose not to. Yes it would be hard and annoying and costly but it is doable.
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