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S/O Working women collapsing
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amother
Apricot


 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 2:48 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
From my end, it's not. I'm just exhausted and overworked and can't help but dream that things were a little easier...


We all want whatever problems we have in life to go away. That doesn't have to include bashing a whole sect of Judaism because of a few ladies who b'h for them have an easy time financially (or living a crooked life- I wouldn't want that).
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amother
Apricot


 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 2:51 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I'm not even referring to fancy rich crowd, just regular families with moms not working!


And as a chassidishe mother with 2 kids, and working part time, I made the choice to go out to work. I can choose to stay home, but that would just make it harder on my husband, and cause us not to be able to make ends meet.

Not all my sils work, but they are living in tiny apartments with no money for anything, but that is their choice.
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 2:54 pm
[quote="amother [ OP ]"]In the chassidish world, you don't have women collapsing from work and childcare, trying to manage it all on their own. Even if they're working, they have so much help and support![/quote]

Help, support? What help and support are you talking about?
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 2:54 pm
Do many chassidish men go into klei kodesh?

I think many go into business. B"H it seems that many are successful. Not all, obviously, unfortunately.

But B"H there seems to be some sort of genetic (or learned) business skills in the chassidish male population.


Last edited by gold21 on Thu, Jan 09 2020, 2:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 2:55 pm
amother [ Apricot ] wrote:
We all want whatever problems we have in life to go away. That doesn't have to include bashing a whole sect of Judaism because of a few ladies who b'h for them have an easy time financially (or living a crooked life- I wouldn't want that).


Sorry but this wasn't bashing, this was feeling that things were downright unfair and wishing things can't improve. And it's not a few ladies, it's most. Glad to hear some on here know others or themselves but EVERY SINGLE ONE I know fits into the non working category. Even if they're working part time, it's nothing near what I'm doing.
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lilies




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 2:55 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
From my end, it's not. I'm just exhausted and overworked and can't help but dream that things were a little easier...


I'm sorry for your pain. Hug

Nobody lives the high life. You just don't know the backstory. Sometimes they have lots of money, sometimes it just looks it.
Some don't run themselves ragged working but have medical issues. Some because they can't find a job. Some have rich fathers. Some have children with medical issues. Some shop to ease their pain about something you don't know about. Some spend recklessly.
Just like the rest of the world.
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banana123




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 2:58 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I've been thinking about this topic in general lately, maybe after spending time with my very chassidish sisters in law, and can't help but feel that life just isn't fair. The chassidish women have it so much easier than litvish or otherwise women! They don't have to work and get to fully focus on their home, children, and families with no other distractions, stress, exhaustion. Besides that, in general, they don't carry the responsibility of the household finances such as paying bills, managing bank accounts, and taking care of all the other myriad details of running home, of which I'm fully and heavily involved in, besides working full time and all my other mother and wife responsibilities. They also live surrounded by warm family and community, all readily available and willing to help at any given time with meals, childcare, and just general support. Their families are warm and close knit and have no high expectations of women other than to be frum and ehrlich and be good mothers and wives. They take vacations in the winter to FL and in summer to country and somehow there's sufficient funding for it all, without them having to work a day in their lives!
They have time to shop, cook, clean, socialize and work out in the gym.
Why do we have it so much harder than them?? Why do I feel that my best years of motherhood have been somewhat robbed from me due to my constant other responsibilities with never a break, not in the summer or winter or any random day just to shop and enjoy life?
Besides for all this, it's not like I have any more money than them. If anything, just the opposite! They seem to have all the money in the world for buying homes, groceries, nice clothing and jewelry, strollers etc etc while I scrimp and save and deprive myself of the basics and live off tzedakah.
Can someone please explain this to me???? It's so frustrating and painful!

Chassidish women don't work? This is news to me.
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 2:58 pm
It's just a culture of leaving the financials to the husband and the focus for the women to be the household.
It doesn't mean they necessary have more money. It just means they're not involved in the finances and focus on other stuff, and that looks nice on the outside.
Every way of life has its pros and its cons.
Try to find ways to better your own life and try to live in the present.
I know how hard it is and I really commiserate. Sometimes I just want to stay home. I watch other moms sitting outside in loungewear waiting for the buses and I'd also like the slower paced life.
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 2:58 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Sorry but this wasn't bashing, this was feeling that things were downright unfair and wishing things can't improve. And it's not a few ladies, it's most. Glad to hear some on here know others or themselves but EVERY SINGLE ONE I know fits into the non working category. Even if they're working part time, it's nothing near what I'm doing.


Why do you want your husband to be in klei kodesh if it's causing you so much frustration? It's OK (in fact, it's healthy) to want to be available to your children more. There's absolutely nothing abnormal or less-than about you. You're normal. You're wonderful. You're human.

Would out of town living be an option for you? May help ease the financial burden.
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amother
Tan


 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 3:01 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
For me, living the high life means being a normal mother and wife. Being able to be home at least in the afternoon, cook fresh supper, not have the pressure and stress in the morning of rushing to work, being able to attend apptmts and make phone calls without the pressure of making up hours, being off when my kids are off erev Shabbos, erev YT, snow days, mid winter, summer, you name it, without feeling torn between taking off and being there for my children.
This is the high life, forget about extras like trips to FL, EY, and country, of which happens right and left, besides for the late night weddings of which there's no rush to go home bec all can sleep in next morning, same goes for bar mitzvahs, sheva brachos etc, of which I almost always forgo due to my very tight exhausting schedule.


OP I can relate to everything you are feeling bec I'm like you. I just want to be a mom, to be able to go to my kid's performances and not worry that going out, I'll be too exhausted to go to work ....and my ds has a health condition that "popped" up, I want to just be able to go with him to appointments instead of being in work. I want to be able to be a mom and wife without worrying about my job responsibilities due at work the next day....I'm exhausted and burnt out....

But, I disagree that it's a chassidish thing. I know chasidish that work and litvish that act like you described. It happens in all types of yehudi communities and I also always wondered how these ppl in kollel or Klei kodesh....pay for all these things.

But, I know that hashem decided that certain ppl are "lucky" and have it good, can be a mom, just going to appointments or brunch and not have pressures of the finances.....while others like you and I are exhausted and overwhelmed....its hard...I'm jealous(even though I'm not supposed to be) but it's all from hashem....HE decides who has it easier or harder!! He decided who has wealthy relatives to support them and who doesn't....etc.
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lilies




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 3:04 pm
ra_mom wrote:
It's just a culture of leaving the financials to the husband and the focus for the women to be the household.


I think that would only apply to Satmar. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Nowadays, most are not able to make things work with just a single source of income. Many, many, chassidishe women work.
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 3:08 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Most of above don't apply to me and yet we're still heavily struggling...


I'm quoting you: you wrote 'most'. The ones that do apply to you that alone is in a big big expense that the chasidish crowd doesn't have.

Of course you're struggling your DH it's not working I mean what do you expect.

Let me tell you a little about my life: were paying $3,000+ for a three-bedroom tiny apartment. I get zero support and zero help from family. We are struggling tremendously, I literally have to think before I buy bread if it's necessary. DH is working extremely hard to make ends meets, hashem should help us. I do wash and sets to help out the most I can, while taking care of my kids at home. We are desperately in need of vacation who's even talking about going up to the Catskills In the summer that my kids so desperately need after being copped up in a tiny apartment for the entire winter. We have no porch nor grounds where my kids could go out and play. Do I meet up with some friends or sisters once a week to socialize a bit and catch our breath from all the stress? Yes. So what do I take usually take? water or coffee How much would that be top a dollar or two. How necessary is that? Extremely extremely necessary in fact a week that goes by and I haven't met up with anyone, you wouldn't want to be standing next to me. I guess you get your social life at work, or lunch time. You might see us in the Cafe all smiley and happy, Yes you have no idea what goes on behind the happy face. We act cheerful and happy but let me tell you a little secret it's all just an act. No one is here on this world to lick honey.
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thunderstorm




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 3:09 pm
lilies wrote:
I think that would only apply to Satmar. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Nowadays, most are not able to make things work with just a single source of income. Many, many, chassidishe women work.

I think many work but the headache is the husband’s. Meaning there is no involvement in bill paying or concern of where they stand financially. It’s like a stress free zone in that way. But there’s a downside to living that way too.
It’s possible that women in their 20s and maybe younger 30s started taking on the financial pressure but the people I know that are older than 35 really don’t think it’s their headache . They focus on all the childrearing, housekeeping , being an Aishes chayil and keeping a happy , easy going home as much as possible. But again, I don’t know every chasiddish woman out there and I don’t think we should generalize on an entire group of women.
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amother
Sapphire


 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 3:09 pm
A LOT of the relaxed lifestyle you are explaining comes from not driving. After all in lakewood there are plenty of "lunching ladies" the ones who are always eating out with friends and getting coffee because they dont work.. but they are not nearly as relaxed because they are always in the car. Errands never end when you drive...
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amother
Linen


 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 3:11 pm
lilies wrote:
I think that would only apply to Satmar. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Nowadays, most are not able to make things work with just a single source of income. Many, many, chassidishe women work.


It doesn't apply to Satmar women either.
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amother
Maroon


 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 3:12 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I've been thinking about this topic in general lately, maybe after spending time with my very chassidish sisters in law, and can't help but feel that life just isn't fair. The chassidish women have it so much easier than litvish or otherwise women! They don't have to work and get to fully focus on their home, children, and families with no other distractions, stress, exhaustion. Besides that, in general, they don't carry the responsibility of the household finances such as paying bills, managing bank accounts, and taking care of all the other myriad details of running home, of which I'm fully and heavily involved in, besides working full time and all my other mother and wife responsibilities. They also live surrounded by warm family and community, all readily available and willing to help at any given time with meals, childcare, and just general support. Their families are warm and close knit and have no high expectations of women other than to be frum and ehrlich and be good mothers and wives. They take vacations in the winter to FL and in summer to country and somehow there's sufficient funding for it all, without them having to work a day in their lives!
They have time to shop, cook, clean, socialize and work out in the gym.
Why do we have it so much harder than them?? Why do I feel that my best years of motherhood have been somewhat robbed from me due to my constant other responsibilities with never a break, not in the summer or winter or any random day just to shop and enjoy life?
Besides for all this, it's not like I have any more money than them. If anything, just the opposite! They seem to have all the money in the world for buying homes, groceries, nice clothing and jewelry, strollers etc etc while I scrimp and save and deprive myself of the basics and live off tzedakah.
Can someone please explain this to me???? It's so frustrating and painful!

Its hits them when they are older and have to care for their own kids plus the grandkids and support everyone. They are very stressed in middle age and are very much sandwiched at that point. More than the litvish. I have chasidish clients. I see this often
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amother
Sienna


 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 3:22 pm
Op, If it's such a stressful life for you why doesn't your husband go out to work? He can have a shuir morning and night. The financial pressure should not be on you.
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 3:23 pm
gold21 wrote:
Why do you want your husband to be in klei kodesh if it's causing you so much frustration? It's OK (in fact, it's healthy) to want to be available to your children more. There's absolutely nothing abnormal or less-than about you. You're normal. You're wonderful. You're human.

Would out of town living be an option for you? May help ease the financial burden.


Bec this is what he's good at and this is where he shines and I wouldn't want it otherwise. Just musing at all the other kollel, klei kodesh or non working chassidish men whose wives aren't doing what I'm doing, that's all. Thanks for the sympathy, no, out of town wouldn't work.
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 3:24 pm
amother [ Sienna ] wrote:
Op, If it's such a stressful life for you why doesn't your husband go out to work? He can have a shuir morning and night. The financial pressure should not be on you.


Like I mentioned earlier, he is working and very hard. However, I completely share the financial burden by doing way beyond my share.
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, Jan 09 2020, 3:25 pm
amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:
A LOT of the relaxed lifestyle you are explaining comes from not driving. After all in lakewood there are plenty of "lunching ladies" the ones who are always eating out with friends and getting coffee because they dont work.. but they are not nearly as relaxed because they are always in the car. Errands never end when you drive...


I'm not referring to those...
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