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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 7:32 am
This thread is a place for those of us who are following along with the daf yomi schedule to discuss our thoughts, questions and connections that arise from our learning. Thank you very much to the OP of the other thread for making me aware that there are other women like me who hope to benefit from daf yomi! I have so many thoughts that come up in the course of learning and I would love a place to share them and to hear thoughts and reactions from others.

This thread is NOT for debate about women learning gemara (except when we get to the dapim which mention that Wink) nor about the value of daf yomi in general. This thread is a positive place to exchange ideas and learn.

This forum is amother enabled, and since Yael enabled the colour feature to keep track of amothers, I hope we can 'get to know each other' a bit in the context of our shared learning, whether by username or by colour.

I suggest we start all our posts with the name of the masechta and the daf number that the post refers to in bold, to enable easy searching. Not everyone has Hebrew enabled keyboards so it should be in English, but we need to have an agreed upon transliteration otherwise searching won't work. I suggest sticking with modern Hebrew pronunciation, mainly because I feel like the yeshivish Ashkenazi pronunciation has a lot of transliteration variants.

If anyone else has any ideas to facilitate smooth running of the discussion here, please share them! And I give us all a bracha that we will go מחיל אל חיל in our learning - and not to forget
אחד המרבה ואחד הממעיט ובלבד שיכוון ליבו לשמים (ברכות ה !!


Last edited by Aylat on Sun, Mar 08 2020, 5:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 7:36 am
Brachot 10
ברכות י

I was listening to the daf yomi shiur this morning while nursing my baby - and then got to the part about David haMelech praising Hashem for the way He planned nursing, making the breasts next to the heart and not near "the place of erva". So that was cool.

I wanted to post more thoughts, but my baby wants feeding again so I'll be back later.


Last edited by Aylat on Tue, Jan 14 2020, 4:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother




Papaya
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 11:37 am
I am the op of the other thread. And this thread, and your post about nursing, are unbelievably cool.

Thank you for starting this thread, and I hope it is very successful.
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 2:57 pm
Daf 10a is wild

The pnei yehoshua says it appears from the Zohar and the words of the kabbalistic masters...
Then the Maharsha is all esoteric Kabbala

My question is the Maharsha writes that even tzadikim receive a yehida the day they die

I learned in Chabad that the Baal Tanya says the 5 types of souls correspond to the 5 tefillot on Yom Kippur

The yehida relates to neila.. So it seems that one has a yechida part of the soul your whole life..

How does that shtim with the maharsha and pnei yehoshua and ben yehoyada
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amother




Mustard
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 7:02 pm
Just curious - is anyone trying out Zichru? (Can find it @ Zichru.org or on All Daf.) I’ve been doing it every day after the Daf, and I’m passing the daily pop quizzes, but I’m still not sure what I’m gaining (if anything) from it. Anyone else doing it?

Also, if everyone could say whose Daf Shiur they are listening to (if applicable) I’d love to hear which ones are working for others. (I have tried out several, but I always go back to R’ Shalom Rosner.)
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 7:38 pm
I’ve been listening to Michelle Cohen Farber’s shiur on hadran. You can go to the website at hadran.org.il or download the podcast. It’s 45 very-fast paced minutes, covers the entire daf ,and includes some mefarshim as well. I need to have the Gemara open in order to follow it fully. I learn so much each day.
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amother




Mustard
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 9:14 pm
Brachot 10
ברכות י

One takeaway I have from today’s Daf is to always keep in mind (and verbally acknowledge) that healing comes from Hashem - not the medication or other medical procedure.

According to the Shulchan Aruch (230:4) before bloodletting, one was supposed to say: יהר"מ ה' אלהי שיהא עסק זה לי לרפואה כי רופא חנם אתה in order to verbally acknowledge that we are just doing our hishtadlus, but healing comes from Hashem. The Mishna Berurah says that today we should say this before taking medication. B”N, I hope to remember to say it before taking any medication or undergoing any medical procedure.
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 3:59 am
naturalmom5 wrote:
Daf 10a is wild

The pnei yehoshua says it appears from the Zohar and the words of the kabbalistic masters...
Then the Maharsha is all esoteric Kabbala

My question is the Maharsha writes that even tzadikim receive a yehida the day they die

I learned in Chabad that the Baal Tanya says the 5 types of souls correspond to the 5 tefillot on Yom Kippur

The yehida relates to neila.. So it seems that one has a yechida part of the soul your whole life..

How does that shtim with the maharsha and pnei yehoshua and ben yehoyada


Yikes, this question is beyond me. I feel like I don't even grasp the concepts - yechida, parts of the soul - it's for people wiser than me. Kol hakavod to you.

However I do love the comparison between Hashem and the soul.
Just as the soul fills the body, so Hashem fills the world...
(I assume that section is the jumping off point for the Maharsha here?)


Last edited by Aylat on Tue, Jan 14 2020, 4:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 4:02 am
amother [ Mustard ] wrote:
Just curious - is anyone trying out Zichru? (Can find it @ Zichru.org or on All Daf.) I’ve been doing it every day after the Daf, and I’m passing the daily pop quizzes, but I’m still not sure what I’m gaining (if anything) from it. Anyone else doing it?

Also, if everyone could say whose Daf Shiur they are listening to (if applicable) I’d love to hear which ones are working for others. (I have tried out several, but I always go back to R’ Shalom Rosner.)


I'm listening to Real Clear Daf app, Rabbi Wise and so far that's working well for me.

Wow, daily quizzes. Sounds like a great way to do chazara and really try to hold onto your learning - which of course is the challenge of the fast pace of daf yomi. I'm checking it out, maybe I'll try and do it occasionally, don't think it's realistic for me to commit every day at the moment.

ETA can you post a link? Not sure I've found the right thing.


Last edited by Aylat on Tue, Jan 14 2020, 4:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 4:07 am
amother [ Mustard ] wrote:
Brachot daf yud
ברכות י

One takeaway I have from today’s Daf is to always keep in mind (and verbally acknowledge) that healing comes from Hashem - not the medication or other medical procedure.

According to the Shulchan Aruch (230:4) before bloodletting, one was supposed to say: יהר"מ ה' אלהי שיהא עסק זה לי לרפואה כי רופא חנם אתה in order to verbally acknowledge that we are just doing our hishtadlus, but healing comes from Hashem. The Mishna Berurah says that today we should say this before taking medication. B”N, I hope to remember to say it before taking any medication or undergoing any medical procedure.


Thanks for this. I really appreciate all reminders to implement my learning into my life ללמוד ולעשות. I take medication daily, I should say this.

PS I wrote it on a post-it note and stuck it onto my medication box. And I wrote "Thank you Mustard" on the back, because it's in your zechus.
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 4:09 am
It's amazing to check imamother this morning and read all your posts! I'm really looking forward to learning together with you. And I can see you are learned women!
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 4:29 am
Brachot 10a
ברכות י


A bunch of questions and thoughts, sort of immediate reactions while going through the daf. I'm throwing out my questions - I don't know if anyone here will have answers at their fingertips, and I certainly don't have the time or the skills to follow up and investigate at the moment, but I think there's great value in asking questions even without the answers yet.

אמר לה ההוא מינא לברוריא: The heretic said to Bruria..
אמר ליה ההוא מינא לרבי אבהו: The heretic said to Rabbi Abahu..

Why are these questions recorded as having been asked by heretics? They seem to me quite reasonable and legitimate questions.

David Hamelech lived in 5 worlds - parallel to the five comparisons between the soul and Hashem?
1) In his mother's womb
2) In the air of the world and saw the stars
3) Nursing
4) Seeing the downfall of the wicked
5) Looking at the day of death

When this section started I thought it was going to be eras in his life kind of thing. In the womb, an infant, and then I guessed possibly a despised shepherd, a warrior, a king? But no. What is "the world" of the downfall of the wicked? "The world" of the day of death? When did he live in those worlds? Is this supposed to be chronological as it seems to be from the first three worlds?

מאי 'כי אין בלתך'? אמר רבי יהודה בר מנסיא: אל תקרי כי 'אין בלתך' אלא 'אין לבלותך': שלא כמדת הקדוש ברוך הוא מדת בשר ודם: מדת בשר ודם מעשה ידיו מבלין אותו והקב"ה מבלה מעשיו.

So this reminded me of the poem (lehavdil) Ozymandias by Shelley about a traveller who comes across a crumbling monument in the desert which has outlasted the empire that built it.
"And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away."
https://www.poetryfoundation.o.....ndias

אנא הכי קא אמינא לך: הני חמשה 'ברכי נפשי - כנגד מי אמרן דוד? - לא אמרן אלא כנגד הקב"ה וכנגד נשמה
Do each of the 5 mentions of ברכי נפשי correspond directly to each of the 5 attributes of the soul and Hashem? I'd like to go through the pesukim some time and see if I can see a correlation.

מי כהקדוש ברוך הוא שיודע לעשות פשרה בין שני צדיקים
והלכת בדרכיו - bringing about a compromise is emulating Hashem

I wonder what the difference is between the two kings and between the two nevi'im that in one case the king went to the navi and in the other case the opposite? בימים ההם חלה חזקיהו למות ויבא אליו ישעיהו Also why did Hashem cause the Yeshayahu to go to Chizkiyahu, it seems like He was deciding in favour of the way round? Otherwise He could equally have made Yeshayahu sick and then Chizkiyahu would have done ביקור חולים.

(Lots of thoughts, long post! I'll start a new post for amud bet.)


Last edited by Aylat on Tue, Jan 14 2020, 4:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 4:51 am
Brachot 10b
:ברכות י


אפילו בעל החלומות אומר לו לאדם למחר הוא מת - אל ימנע עצמו מן הרחמים

Interesting thought. The person in the Torah called בעל החלומות is Yosef בראשית לז:יט, but when he tells the baker: your dream means you'll be executed, the baker gives up and accepts his fate. Maybe it wasn't written in stone and could have been averted by his prayer. But then the butler wouldn't have been impressed by Yosef's skill as a dream interpreter and told Paroah about him.

מה שונמית שלא עשתה אלא קיר אחת קטנה - החיית את בנה
I told my husband my thought on this one! Okay DH, it really would be a mitzva and a zechus if we built an extension for your mother to come live with us... Wink (Not practical at this point in time, or needed yet bH, just a general discussion.)

אלא טעה בדשמואל
Is this referring to Shmuel haNavi or to Shmuel in the Gemara? (Is he a tanna or an amora?)

כל התולה בזכות עצמו - תולין לו בזכות אחרים, וכל התולה בזכות אחרים - תולין לו בזכות עצמו
So which is better - to daven in my own zechus or in other people's zechus? Maybe I doubt that my own merit is enough for my prayer to be answered, so I davka should daven in my own zechus so that other's people's merit will cause my prayer to be answered. Or am I misinterpreting?

נעשה נא עליית קיר קטנה
Awesome to read the details of the הכנסת אורחים and the כבוד to צדיקים that she did.

מכאן שהאשה מכרת באורחין יותר מן האיש
Cool!
And how horrible - s-xual harassment from Gehazi. And didn't Elisha realise his servant was a no-good guy? It's not the only unpleasant thing he did.

'אל יעמוד אדם במקום גבוה ויתפלל אלא במקום נמוך ויתפלל, שנאמר ממעמקים קראתיך ה
I remember learning this for the first time on the Poland trip I went on in seminary, and in the old shuls they had the elevated bima for leining Torah and a shallow dip in the ground for the chazzan to lead the tefilla from.

Also question: why the repetition of the פסוק of ממעמקים?

לא תאכלו קודם שתתפללו
I'm not careful about this, maybe I should be. With a newborn I'm a teruda and exempt, but I at least try and say ברכות התורה and ברכות השחר every morning (and my goal is at least one עמידה a day), but I often eat breakfast first - I should probably change my practice.

הקורא מכאן ואילך לא הפסיד
I noted down that I had a question on this section, but looking back I'm not clear enough about it to even phrase my question properly.

אמרו לו: כדי היית לחוב בעצמך שעברת על דברי בית הלל
Yikes! He didn't contradict the teaching of בית הלל. Aren't we taught that it's good to try and fulfil all opinions if we can. (Spoiler: I've already listened to daf yud alef this morning and this question is discussed further there. But ultimately my question remains.)


Last edited by Aylat on Tue, Jan 14 2020, 4:55 am; edited 2 times in total
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 4:53 am
Aylat wrote:

This forum is amother enabled, and since Yael enabled the colour feature to keep track of amothers, I hope we can 'get to know each other' a bit in the context of our shared learning, whether by username or by colour.



Naturalmom5's format of masechet and number: Brachot 10a makes more sense than what I was doing: daf yud amud alef, which is unwieldy. I suggest we adopt that and I've gone back to change mine. Thumbs Up naturalmom5.
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malki2




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 5:38 am
Aylat wrote:
It's amazing to check imamother this morning and read all your posts! I'm really looking forward to learning together with you. And I can see you are learned women!


You posted a lot of really nice questions! Even if you don’t get responses, don’t think that people aren’t reading. Keep posting your thoughts! יישר כחך
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Aylat




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 5:39 am
malki2 wrote:
You posted a lot of really nice questions! Even if you don’t get responses, don’t think that people aren’t reading. Keep posting your thoughts! יישר כחך


Thank you malki2! That's really nice to hear, especially from someone who is ambivalent about this whole idea.
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amother




Dodgerblue
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 5:55 am
naturalmom5 wrote:
Daf 10a is wild

The pnei yehoshua says it appears from the Zohar and the words of the kabbalistic masters...
Then the Maharsha is all esoteric Kabbala

My question is the Maharsha writes that even tzadikim receive a yehida the day they die

I learned in Chabad that the Baal Tanya says the 5 types of souls correspond to the 5 tefillot on Yom Kippur

The yehida relates to neila.. So it seems that one has a yechida part of the soul your whole life..

How does that shtim with the maharsha and pnei yehoshua and ben yehoyada

There are 5 levels of the neshama within each person- in ascending order of holiness: nefesh, ruach, neshama, chaya, yechida. Nefesh is "in charge" of our physical aspects, ruach our spiritual, and then the next 3 are also spiritual but I dont quite know the difference between them. This is a chassidus question to ask someone learned.
But chassidus talks a lot about yechida shebinefesh. There is a lot more than just its correlation with neilah on yom kippur. I am not so learned but I'll tell you a few more things about the yechida level, for example:
- Every day shacharis also correlates to the five levels of the neshama. If you learn the chassidus of davening, you can learn more about this. Basically davening is like an ascending ladder and when you get to shmone esrei, the holiest part, that is the part that correlates with yechida shebinefesh.
- The yechida shebinefesh doesn't come down here like the rest of our neshama. It stays above in Heaven. When we get suddenly inspired, that's our yechida working.
- It says that the tzaddik hador has a neshama klalis, meaning a neshama that encompasses the neshama of all the Jews of that generation. Our yechida shebinefesh is encompassed in the tzaddik's neshama, and this is how the tzaddik hador can inspire us and guide us properly when we turn to him.
-The yechida can never be damaged, ruined, or affected by sin. It is always there in Heaven, perfect and complete. It is the essence of our souls and this is why even when we feel like we have majorly messed up or if we feel damaged by another person's actions, we must know that our yechida is pure, and is there to help us get back to that pure state. Which is what teshuva is about if we sinned. The yechida enables teshuva and frees us from things other people may have done to us. This is the connection to Yom Kippur, which chassidus explains automatically affects all our sins of bein adam lmakom as forgiven. (Bein adam lchaveiro has to be personally asked.)

I'm sorry to insert chassidus into a gemara thread, I wanted to tell you that there is much more to yechida shebinefesh and to give you a taste of it so you can make your question stronger.

I don't know the answer to your question but this is something I would ask more learned people. Generally in my experience, when chassidus explains a gemara, it is a mindblowing inspiring explanation. I encourage you to ask and I would look forward to hearing the explanation.
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malki2




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 6:20 am
Aylat wrote:
Thank you malki2! That's really nice to hear, especially from someone who is ambivalent about this whole idea.


Ayalat, I’ll tell you the truth. Based on my upbringing, it happens to push one of my hot buttons when I feel like someone is disrespecting Chazal or saying that their words aren’t timely or relevant or that they were out of touch or chauvinistic. Not calling out anyone in particular, but that was sort of the thrust of my arguments. And I apologize if I came across as preachy. I do also happen to get a bit hot under the collar sometimes. Also, I was really surprised to see that there were so many women really interested in taking learning Gemara seriously, which I don’t come across much in my world. I don’t want to derail this discussion at all, but you brought it up so I’m responding. Please continue with your incisive comments!
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amother




Mustard
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 7:18 am
Aylat wrote:
I'm listening to Real Clear Daf app, Rabbi Wise and so far that's working well for me.

Wow, daily quizzes. Sounds like a great way to do chazara and really try to hold onto your learning - which of course is the challenge of the fast pace of daf yomi. I'm checking it out, maybe I'll try and do it occasionally, don't think it's realistic for me to commit every day at the moment.

ETA can you post a link? Not sure I've found the right thing.


Sorry. My error . This is the link:

https://zichru.com/

I signed up for their 12-day challenge and get reminder emails every day. I am also accessing it through the All Daf app (https://alldaf.org/).

It doesn’t add that much more time (an extra 5-10 min.), and I figure it’s worth it, if it will help me retain what I’m learning. I’m not sure yet what I think about it, though, so I was hoping to get some other opinions. (I don’t know anyone else doing it.)
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amother




Mustard
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 7:45 am
malki2 wrote:
Ayalat, I’ll tell you the truth. Based on my upbringing, it happens to push one of my hot buttons when I feel like someone is disrespecting Chazal or saying that their words aren’t timely or relevant or that they were out of touch or chauvinistic. Not calling out anyone in particular, but that was sort of the thrust of my arguments. And I apologize if I came across as preachy. I do also happen to get a bit hot under the collar sometimes. Also, I was really surprised to see that there were so many women really interested in taking learning Gemara seriously, which I don’t come across much in my world. I don’t want to derail this discussion at all, but you brought it up so I’m responding. Please continue with your incisive comments!


I don’t know who you are, but I suspect I’m from your world. I don’t know anyone either IRL, who is learning Gemara (and my friends don’t know about me.). This is why I really get chizuk and inspiration (not to mention knowledge) from a thread like this and the knowledge that I am not actually alone.

I think if you try it for a week, you might be surprised to find out that you’d really enjoy it. Learning has definitely enriched my life - both Halacha l’Ma’aseh and in feeling a greater sense of connection through continued thinking in learning. You can easily listen to shiurim through podcasts (or online) while driving or engaged in boring household tasks. You don’t need any prior background in learning Gemara (I had none - BY education) and it can be done in private. If you do, I’d love to welcome you into our community if learners. (You sound like someone who thinks and cares about things.) Smile
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