Discussion on the Daf - Brachot

Aylat

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:11 am

malki2 wrote:

Good point. But see the Rashi in vayishlach that discusses that the actual “shiur” of onah differs for each woman depending on her husband’s availability. (An interesting subject to get into for a different time.) And the Gemara is specifically discussing Talmidei Chachamim. So therefore it’s not looked at as bittul mitzvat onah.

Was תקנת עזרא only for תלמידי חכמים or for everyone?

malki2

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:32 am

Aylat wrote:

Was תקנת עזרא only for תלמידי חכמים or for everyone?

Good question. Not sure, but the reason was clear that it’s purpose was so that Talmidei Chachamim would live a more ascetic lifestyle. I’m not sure about this either, but I think that society was much more “binary” than it is today. It seems like there were only Talmidei Chachamim and Amei Haaretz. It could be that the Amei Haaretz did not follow this Halacha, nor was it meant for them.

Aylat

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 8:38 am

malki2 wrote:

Is there a source for that other than the reference in daf 22? Because that makes it sound like a consequence (either desired or not) but not like the primary aim.

malki2

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 8:55 am

Aylat wrote:

Is there a source for that other than the reference in daf 22? Because that makes it sound like a consequence (either desired or not) but not like the primary aim.

I’ll check. It definitely says in a few places that I saw that the takanah was for Divrei Torah which need to be approached with a reverant frame of mind.

Aylat

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 9:50 am

malki2 wrote:

I’ll check. It definitely says in a few places that I saw that the takanah was for Divrei Torah which need to be approached with a reverant frame of mind.

Right, it says that on daf 22. But already from the משנה it includes קריאת שמע and ברכת המזון which apply to everyone.

malki2

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 10:17 am

Aylat wrote:

Right, it says that on daf 22. But already from the משנה it includes קריאת שמע and ברכת המזון which apply to everyone.

I know. 🤔. That bothered me as well. I’ll try to do some research later.

imorethanamother

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 1:18 pm

Aylat wrote:

[* in parenthesis because not daf yomi related.
The one that always gets me is korban pesach. There's a second chance for those who miss it - and it's exactly a month after!! But a woman who is a nidda on the 15th of Nissan is very likely also nidda on the 15th of Iyar. And possibly also on those dates next year and the year after as well. (Apparently cycles were very regular in those days, and the most common was 30 or 31 days hence the onah beinonit that we keep.) So there were girls and women who never got to bring the korban Pesach?? Crying

Or am I missing something.
Can you imagine the imamother equivalent in those days: "any recommendations on how to push off/bring on my period early - I really want to bring the Pesach this year."]

I think women are exempt from Korban pesach. I learned this while listening to a shiur that asked whether women are exempt from matzah and the answer was no but only because it’s tied to the mitzvah of retelling the story of yetzias mitzrayim.

Last edited by imorethanamother on Sun, Jan 26 2020, 1:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

malki2

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 1:27 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

I think women are exempt from Korban pesach. I learned this while listening to a shiur that asked whether women are exempt from matzah and the answer was yes but only because it’s tied to the mitzvah of retelling the story of yetzias mitzrayim.

The Afikoman that we eat is in place of the Korban Pesach and women are chayav to eat it. Also, just like the Haggadah is done over the matza, it was also done over the Korban Pesach. So women are definitely obligated. The only ones who were exempted from the Korbam Pesach due to tumah were those who were טמאים לנפש אדם. And some others, like metzorah, I think, but pretty sure not niddah.

imorethanamother

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 1:55 pm

malki2 wrote:

Ok, so it seems like the Halacha regarding a פולטת שכבת זרע is only if she actually emits the zera, not that it’s an automatic tumah for 3 days. Meaning practically that if she would wash herself out for example, that she wouldn’t be in a constant state of tumah. Not sure how much this helps, but I wanted to point it out.

And maybe because it’s not something we intend (or is it?) we would be tahor simply by pouring 9 kavim over ourselves - or take a shower.

malki2

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 2:10 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

And maybe because it’s not something we intend (or is it?) we would be tahor simply by pouring 9 kavim over ourselves - or take a shower.

I think we’re actually confusing two different things. There is something called טומאת קרי which is mentioned in the Torah. That is a concept in Taharot, and applies also to a פולטת and also anyone else who touches the זרע. Then there is טבילת עזרא. I think that one only applies to the men after they emit זרע, and is a restriction on learning Torah, specifically. It’s not a taharot issue related to coming in contact with the זרע. I think.

Aylat

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 2:15 pm

malki2 wrote:

[Non daf tangent continued.
Nidda was allowed to partake of the korban Pesach?? That would be great. But I thought none of the tuma statuses were allowed to partake of kodshim.]

malki2

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 2:27 pm

Aylat wrote:

[Non daf tangent continued.
Nidda was allowed to partake of the korban Pesach?? That would be great. But I thought none of the tuma statuses were allowed to partake of kodshim.]

I think only zavah, not niddah was a problem bc they had to bring a korban. But will keep researching.

naturalmom5

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 2:30 pm

Brochos 22

Often in the course of our busy days, our mind wanders unharnessed and we have a thought that things are happenstance and random. Cv"s
They are just a coincedence ( kri) ..

Thats when we need to immerse ourselves completely in Torah. Torah is compared to water, and 40 seah is the shiur needed to totally nullify a person. We get haughty and have such thoughts, but we need to think of water that travels to the lowest places to become an anuv and humble ourselves

Sometimes that isnt possible because we are on a lowly madrega, so the next aitza is to sprinkle a little ruchnius on ourselves, 9 kavim..
As in 9 kavim of witchcraft was given to mitzraim and the rest to the rest of the world..
9 kavim of ruchnius were given to clall yisroel..
Think of one vort, one awareness..

Whenever even that isnt possible we need to know that Torah is like fire. It isnt mkabl tuma, but we need to commit to Torah and let our neshoma control our body and not the other way... cv"s

Aylat

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 2:40 pm

malki2 wrote:

I think only zavah, not niddah was a problem bc they had to bring a korban. But will keep researching.

הפסח שבא בטומאה, לא יאכלו ממנו זבין וזבות נידות ויולדות.
משנה פסחים ט:ד

goodmorning

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 2:41 pm

malki2 wrote:

I think only zavah, not niddah was a problem bc they had to bring a korban. But will keep researching.

Niddos were not allowed to partake of the korban Pesach.

Rambam, Hilchos Korban Pesach 6:1

אֵי זֶהוּ טָמֵא שֶׁנִּדְחֶה לְפֶסַח שֵׁנִי. כָּל מִי שֶׁאֵינוֹ יָכוֹל לֶאֱכל אֶת הַפֶּסַח בְּלֵילֵי ט''ו בְּנִיסָן מִפְּנֵי טֻמְאָתוֹ כְּגוֹן זָבִים וְזָבוֹת נִדּוֹת וְיוֹלְדוֹת וּבוֹעֲלֵי נִדּוֹת

Aylat

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 2:41 pm

malki2 wrote:

Could be.

Aylat

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 2:43 pm

goodmorning wrote:

Better source than the one I posted, thank you.
But Crying

I wonder if the nidda issue (pesach sheini) is discussed in Pesachim. Guess I'll find out in a few years.

Aylat

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 2:48 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

Thank you.

malki2

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 2:54 pm

goodmorning wrote:

Niddos were not allowed to partake of the korban Pesach.

Rambam, Hilchos Korban Pesach 6:1

אֵי זֶהוּ טָמֵא שֶׁנִּדְחֶה לְפֶסַח שֵׁנִי. כָּל מִי שֶׁאֵינוֹ יָכוֹל לֶאֱכל אֶת הַפֶּסַח בְּלֵילֵי ט''ו בְּנִיסָן מִפְּנֵי טֻמְאָתוֹ כְּגוֹן זָבִים וְזָבוֹת נִדּוֹת וְיוֹלְדוֹת וּבוֹעֲלֵי נִדּוֹת

Ok, so there ends my speculation. So we need to understand what niddot did re the Korban Pesach. I guess thar most women in childbearing years just didn’t eat. . .

amother

Teal

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 3:20 pm

naturalmom5 wrote:

Daf 10a is wild

The pnei yehoshua says it appears from the Zohar and the words of the kabbalistic masters...
Then the Maharsha is all esoteric Kabbala

My question is the Maharsha writes that even tzadikim receive a yehida the day they die

I learned in Chabad that the Baal Tanya says the 5 types of souls correspond to the 5 tefillot on Yom Kippur

The yehida relates to neila.. So it seems that one has a yechida part of the soul your whole life..

How does that shtim with the maharsha and pnei yehoshua and ben yehoyada

What is a yehida