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Discussion on the Daf - Brachot
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amother
Teal


 

Post Sun, Jan 26 2020, 3:21 pm
amother [ Mustard ] wrote:
Brachot 10
ברכות י

One takeaway I have from today’s Daf is to always keep in mind (and verbally acknowledge) that healing comes from Hashem - not the medication or other medical procedure.

According to the Shulchan Aruch (230:4) before bloodletting, one was supposed to say: יהר"מ ה' אלהי שיהא עסק זה לי לרפואה כי רופא חנם אתה in order to verbally acknowledge that we are just doing our hishtadlus, but healing comes from Hashem. The Mishna Berurah says that today we should say this before taking medication. B”N, I hope to remember to say it before taking any medication or undergoing any medical procedure.


I’ve been saying it for yrs
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amother
Teal


 

Post Sun, Jan 26 2020, 3:22 pm
Aylat wrote:
This thread is a place for those of us who are following along with the daf yomi schedule to discuss our thoughts, questions and connections that arise from our learning. Thank you very much to the OP of the other thread for making me aware that there are other women like me who hope to benefit from daf yomi! I have so many thoughts that come up in the course of learning and I would love a place to share them and to hear thoughts and reactions from others.

This thread is NOT for debate about women learning gemara (except when we get to the dapim which mention that Wink) nor about the value of daf yomi in general. This thread is a positive place to exchange ideas and learn.

This forum is amother enabled, and since Yael enabled the colour feature to keep track of amothers, I hope we can 'get to know each other' a bit in the context of our shared learning, whether by username or by colour.

I suggest we start all our posts with the name of the masechta and the daf number that the post refers to in bold, to enable easy searching. Not everyone has Hebrew enabled keyboards so it should be in English, but we need to have an agreed upon transliteration otherwise searching won't work. I suggest sticking with modern Hebrew pronunciation, mainly because I feel like the yeshivish Ashkenazi pronunciation has a lot of transliteration variants.

If anyone else has any ideas to facilitate smooth running of the discussion here, please share them! And I give us all a bracha that we will go מחיל אל חיל in our learning - and not to forget
אחד המרבה ואחד הממעיט ובלבד שיכוון ליבו לשמים (ברכות ה !!


I thought women isn’t allowed to learn Gemara? Isn’t that true?
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 26 2020, 4:07 pm
YECHIDAH is from the Hebrew, meaning SOUL, UNIT, UNTIY (Alcalay, R. ... Kabbalah - The numerical value of the Hey is five, alluding to the five names of the soul Nephesh, Ruach, Neshama, Chaya, Yechida
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 26 2020, 4:21 pm
amother [ Teal ] wrote:
I thought women isn’t allowed to learn Gemara? Isn’t that true?


That was discussed in other threads...

Please dont disturb this one...
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 26 2020, 4:40 pm
malki2 wrote:
Ok, so there ends my speculation. So we need to understand what niddot did re the Korban Pesach. I guess thar most women in childbearing years just didn’t eat. . .


A couple of things:

1. Women didn’t menstruate that much several thousand years ago because they typically nursed all their children exclusively for longer periods of time. 2-3 years. Moreover, because there wasn’t the abundance of food that we have now, an exclusively nursing woman would be less likely to get her cycle back. Of course this didn’t apply to wealthy women who had access to plenty of food and who may have had wet nurses, but it likely applies to the majority.

2. This will sound very Red Tent-like but is there anything to the theory that in ancient times, women eventually regularized themselves to lunar cycles? If so, they began menstruation with the new moon. So Pesach wouldn’t be a problem, since it’s the 15th of the month.
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malki2




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 26 2020, 4:47 pm
JoyInTheMorning wrote:
A couple of things:

1. Women didn’t menstruate that much several thousand years ago because they typically nursed all their children exclusively for longer periods of time. 2-3 years. Moreover, because there wasn’t the abundance of food that we have now, an exclusively nursing woman would be less likely to get her cycle back. Of course this didn’t apply to wealthy women who had access to plenty of food and who may have had wet nurses, but it likely applies to the majority.

2. This will sound very Red Tent-like but is there anything to the theory that in ancient times, women eventually regularized themselves to lunar cycles? If so, they began menstruation with the new moon. So Pesach wouldn’t be a problem, since it’s the 15th of the month.


1. Very good point.
2. Possibly, but that wouldn’t necessarily mean the beginning of the lunar cycle, just that it came same time of each month. That’s why there’s an onah for Yom Hachodesh BTW.
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amother
Turquoise


 

Post Sun, Jan 26 2020, 5:14 pm
Sorry to interrupt the thread but how are all of you learning the Daf? It sounds so amazing and I would love to join but I really don't have too much time to read it inside.
Is there a shiur I can listen to while working that explains everything clearly?
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Aylat




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 26 2020, 6:10 pm
JoyInTheMorning wrote:
A couple of things:

1. Women didn’t menstruate that much several thousand years ago because they typically nursed all their children exclusively for longer periods of time. 2-3 years. Moreover, because there wasn’t the abundance of food that we have now, an exclusively nursing woman would be less likely to get her cycle back. Of course this didn’t apply to wealthy women who had access to plenty of food and who may have had wet nurses, but it likely applies to the majority.


1) If you were a nursing mother you were probably less likely to be oleh laregel so it wouldn't matter that you weren't menstruating.
2) What about girls who had started menstruating and were not yet married? Women with fertility issues?
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 26 2020, 6:18 pm
https://www.dafyomiyicc.org/

Turquoise
I find this shiur to be short and concise and easy to follow
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Aylat




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 26 2020, 6:20 pm
amother [ Turquoise ] wrote:
Sorry to interrupt the thread but how are all of you learning the Daf? It sounds so amazing and I would love to join but I really don't have too much time to read it inside.
Is there a shiur I can listen to while working that explains everything clearly?


Welcome!
Check out this thread for resources, shiurim etc.
https://www.imamother.com/foru.....73788
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Aylat




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 26 2020, 6:27 pm
amother [ Teal ] wrote:
I thought women isn’t allowed to learn Gemara? Isn’t that true?


Hi Teal!
There was a discussion about that here
https://www.imamother.com/foru.....79015
and here
https://www.imamother.com/foru.....79327

If you want to continue that discussion after you've read through those threads, go right ahead - but please post there or start a new thread. This thread is for discussion on the daf, not debate about learning daf yomi. Thanks.
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amother
Mustard


 

Post Sun, Jan 26 2020, 11:22 pm
malki2 wrote:
Ok, so it seems like the Halacha regarding a פולטת שכבת זרע is only if she actually emits the zera, not that it’s an automatic tumah for 3 days. Meaning practically that if she would wash herself out for example, that she wouldn’t be in a constant state of tumah. Not sure how much this helps, but I wanted to point it out.



Do you have a source for this? This is what I have, from Niddah 41b

והא אמר רבא משמשת כל שלשה ימים אסורה לאכול בתרומה שאי אפשר לה שלא תפלוט
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malki2




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 26 2020, 11:55 pm
amother [ Mustard ] wrote:
Do you have a source for this? This is what I have, from Niddah 41b

והא אמר רבא משמשת כל שלשה ימים אסורה לאכול בתרומה שאי אפשר לה שלא תפלוט
.

Look a little further in that same Gemara. The Gemara gives possibilities where the zera will not necessarily be emitted from her for the entire three days. I don’t know which of them is Lema’aseh though.
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amother
Mustard


 

Post Mon, Jan 27 2020, 12:05 am
malki2 wrote:
.

Look a little further in that same Gemara. The Gemara gives possibilities where the zera will not necessarily be emitted from her for the entire three days. I don’t know which of them is Lema’aseh though.


None of those scenarios look lema’aseh irl Sad. I think that’s why she is just prohibited from trumah for the entire 3 days, because the assumption is that she may be poletes at any moment. . .
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 27 2020, 12:29 am
Aylat wrote:
1) If you were a nursing mother you were probably less likely to be oleh laregel so it wouldn't matter that you weren't menstruating.
2) What about girls who had started menstruating and were not yet married? Women with fertility issues?


1) That’s true. However, at least those nursing mothers in or near Yerushalayim, who presumably didn’t have too far a distance to go, would be able to eat the Korban Pesach.

2) Unfortunately, infertile women have always been treated like third class citizens in many ways. The fact that a significant percentage also wouldn’t be able to eat the Korban Pesach was just more of the same.

I’ve often wondered what the practical mechanics of the Oleh Regel process looked like. Where did families sleep while they were traveling, and once they reached Yerushalayim? What happened to everyone’s property back on the nachalah? Who milked the cows and took the sheep out to graze? Who made sure that the granaries weren’t infested by rodents? If tens of thousands of houses were abandoned, did enemies see this as an opportune time to attack?

Perhaps those women who knew they’d be niddah decided to stay behind. It may have been fortuitous that some women stayed behind to hold down the fort; just rather unlucky for the women who were in that position every year.
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amother
Mustard


 

Post Mon, Jan 27 2020, 12:46 am
JoyInTheMorning wrote:
1) That’s true. However, at least those nursing mothers in or near Yerushalayim, who presumably didn’t have too far a distance to go, would be able to eat the Korban Pesach.

2) Unfortunately, infertile women have always been treated like third class citizens in many ways. The fact that a significant percentage also wouldn’t be able to eat the Korban Pesach was just more of the same.

I’ve often wondered what the practical mechanics of the Oleh Regel process looked like. Where did families sleep while they were traveling, and once they reached Yerushalayim? What happened to everyone’s property back on the nachalah? Who milked the cows and took the sheep out to graze? Who made sure that the granaries weren’t infested by rodents? If tens of thousands of houses were abandoned, did enemies see this as an opportune time to attack?

Perhaps those women who knew they’d be niddah decided to stay behind. It may have been fortuitous that some women stayed behind to hold down the fort; just rather unlucky for the women who were in that position every year.


I’ve also wondered about some of these things, and I don’t have an answer for all of your questions, but I do know that there is a specific havtacha that enemies would not covet the land of B’nei Yisrael, who were oleh l’regel, as it says in Shemos: 34;24

כִּֽי־אוֹרִ֤ישׁ גּוֹיִם֙ מִפָּנֶ֔יךָ וְהִרְחַבְתִּ֖י אֶת־גְּבוּלֶ֑ךָ וְלֹא־יַחְמֹ֥ד אִישׁ֙ אֶֽת־אַרְצְךָ֔ בַּעֲלֹֽתְךָ֗ לֵרָאוֹת֙ אֶת־פְּנֵי֙ יְהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֔יךָ שָׁלֹ֥שׁ פְּעָמִ֖ים בַּשָּׁנָֽה׃
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 27 2020, 12:49 am
malki2 wrote:
1. Very good point.
2. Possibly, but that wouldn’t necessarily mean the beginning of the lunar cycle, just that it came same time of each month. That’s why there’s an onah for Yom Hachodesh BTW.


Regarding 2, this is why I mentioned what I’ve been told is the Red Tent theory. (I’ve never actually read the book.) The theory is that in ancient times, perhaps due to the absence of artificial light at night, and the total darkness that occurred around the new moon, most women began menstruation at the beginning of the lunar month and ovulated when the moon was full. I have no idea whether this is a total myth or is based on something. I know that when I was experiencing SIF, and frequented infertility forums on the Internet, some women said that they achieved perfect 29.5 day cycles aligned with the moon when they eliminated all sources of artificial light at night , and that this helped them conceive. I was never able to achieve darkness — we lived in NYC— so I am no evidence either way. I do remember thinking when I heard about this theory that perhaps this is why the women during R. Zeira’s time found it so difficult to distinguish between being niddah and zavah. If they lost that synchronization with the lunar cycle, things would have become much more confusing.

Regarding the onah for Yom Hachodesh, I don’t know when this started. Again, maybe this started during the time of R. Zeira?
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 27 2020, 12:53 am
amother [ Mustard ] wrote:
I’ve also wondered about some of these things, and I don’t have an answer for all of your questions, but I do know that there is a specific havtacha that enemies would not covet the land of B’nei Yisrael, who were oleh l’regel, as it says in Shemos: 34;24

כִּֽי־אוֹרִ֤ישׁ גּוֹיִם֙ מִפָּנֶ֔יךָ וְהִרְחַבְתִּ֖י אֶת־גְּבוּלֶ֑ךָ וְלֹא־יַחְמֹ֥ד אִישׁ֙ אֶֽת־אַרְצְךָ֔ בַּעֲלֹֽתְךָ֗ לֵרָאוֹת֙ אֶת־פְּנֵי֙ יְהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֔יךָ שָׁלֹ֥שׁ פְּעָמִ֖ים בַּשָּׁנָֽה׃


You are correct; I had forgotten about that havtacha. Thanks! I still would like to know what the practical logistics were.
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JoyInTheMorning




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 27 2020, 1:02 am
imorethanamother wrote:
Except my husband off the cuff told me about hilchos niddah that being tamei meant a lot of things. (I didn’t learn this yet, just happy I’m so far doing berachos). That we couldn’t go to the Bais hamikdash, that we couldn’t be around other people, that we couldn’t prepare food. (Although he then specified that the Rabbanim cleared that, which makes sense because who else would feed everyone?!). In fact I remember learning about Avraham and Sarah when the three angels came that Avraham wanted Sarah to make quick bread but she insisted on the better quality longer bread, and while she was doing so she became in Niddah and Avraham had to prepare the rest of the food. I’m trying to find the shiur, and of course I can’t find it now.


Even assuming the avot kept the whole Torah (I know it’s a midrash, but I don’t know that this is universally accepted, although it’s taught to all kids), why would Sarah have kept a takanah??
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malki2




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jan 27 2020, 1:37 am
imorethanamother wrote:
Except my husband off the cuff told me about hilchos niddah that being tamei meant a lot of things. (I didn’t learn this yet, just happy I’m so far doing berachos). That we couldn’t go to the Bais hamikdash, that we couldn’t be around other people, that we couldn’t prepare food. (Although he then specified that the Rabbanim cleared that, which makes sense because who else would feed everyone?!). In fact I remember learning about Avraham and Sarah when the three angels came that Avraham wanted Sarah to make quick bread but she insisted on the better quality longer bread, and while she was doing so she became in Niddah and Avraham had to prepare the rest of the food. I’m trying to find the shiur, and of course I can’t find it now.


Rashi there says that Sarah was פירסה נדה.
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