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Poll

Are you currently in debt? CC or Medical
Yes
 37%  [ 44 ]
No
 62%  [ 74 ]
Total Votes : 118


amother




Orchid
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 4:28 pm
I'm about 20K in debt. I was debt-free for more than 20 years after my marriage B"H. Then my daughter became ill with an illness that costs a ton and is hardly covered by insurance. B"H she's doing well. I do own a home with no mortgage, but for complicated reasons I can't take a loan against it. Instead, I have CC debt - (I try to get 0% rates and I am slowly paying it back.) We live as simply as we can manage.
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lilies




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 4:35 pm
I started this thread after seeing the other two threads on debt. This is not about me. It's a theoretical concept I just thought of and wondering what others think.

People can suffer from medical issues even while living a healthy lifestyle. Will eating junk food and avoiding exercise cause health issues? Probably. Will eating healthy and exercising guarantee a life without medical issues until 120? No.

When discussing financials many people make it seem as if they are in control. Some people are in debt due to medical expenses and the like. I feel it's a part of life. Just like any other struggle Hashem might give you. Will being fiscally responsible avoid unnecessary debt? Yes. Will it guarantee a life free of financial struggle? No.
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amother




Papaya
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 7:32 pm
lilies wrote:
Insurance does not pay for everything.


It can cover catastrophic illnesses. It depends on your insurance.
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amother




Papaya
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 7:41 pm
lilies wrote:
Have you been in debt before being debt-free?


I had a mortgage and didn't like it. I paid it off in 7 months. I also once had a car loan to build up credit. My accountant advised me to do this. I didn't like that either and prefer to pay cash for my vehicles. By paying off all bills monthly, that builds credit nicely. Nowadays, you need good credit to get good insurance rates.

While Hashem controls the world, it is possible to be financially prudent. Getting a good education can lead to getting a good job. Being smart and working hard often leads to good results.
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amother




Floralwhite
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 8:06 pm
amother [ Papaya ] wrote:
Insurance is for accidents and illnesses.


Insurance won't help when a parent has to quit her job to sit at a sick child's hospital bed for ten months.
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amother




Papaya
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 8:36 pm
amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:
Insurance won't help when a parent has to quit her job to sit at a sick child's hospital bed for ten months.


That's where fiscal prudence comes in. You can have cash reserves which can carry you through life's crisises. My consistently living below your means and saving consistently, you can build up cash reserves.
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amother




Periwinkle
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 8:41 pm
I'm shocked that 40% of responders are living in debt
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amother




Blue
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 8:48 pm
Rappel wrote:
Your questions are US-centric though.

Where I am, tuition and medical care do not have the same impact that it does on you. As my family increases I will certainly be concerned about growing expenses like food, clothes and lodgings. But odds are good that I won't go into debt for my kids' extracurricular activities, which will probably be their next-largest expense for many years.

In short, my numbers will not say the same thing as yours, and the same goes for many people here.


I agree but it would also be interested in delineate where people live, if they are expected to buy their kids apartments... basically how do different lifestyles and locations actually play out in the long run.

I've actually been thinking of starting a thread to see how many people are in debt who have married off their kids..
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lilies




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 8:55 pm
amother [ Papaya ] wrote:
That's where fiscal prudence comes in. You can have cash reserves which can carry you through life's crisises. My consistently living below your means and saving consistently, you can build up cash reserves.


That is limited, unless one is well off..
One can have a sick child, slow business, bad investment...
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amother




Dodgerblue
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 9:02 pm
I am very impressed so many people have no debt don’t know what country the majority of respondents are in. In New York there are professionals and business people making several hundred thousand a year but there are plenty of people making a median salary of 75,000 when you consider the number of children people have in their families and the cost of tuition and kosher food and holidays and clothing and a mortgage or outrageous rental fees along with charitable donations and the cost of dressing appropriate such as sheitels and Yom Tov clothes not to mention bar mitzvahs and wedding expenses and then grandchildren and the expenses of being decent parents and grandparents and the occasional vacation that always costs more when you are a kosher consumer the high costs of seminary’s for older children it’s a miracle most people are not saddled with debt! And that’s without keeping up with the Schwartz’s and the Cohens!!
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lilies




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 9:14 pm
amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:
I am very impressed so many people have no debt don’t know what country the majority of respondents are in. In New York there are professionals and business people making several hundred thousand a year but there are plenty of people making a median salary of 75,000 when you consider the number of children people have in their families and the cost of tuition and kosher food and holidays and clothing and a mortgage or outrageous rental fees along with charitable donations and the cost of dressing appropriate such as sheitels and Yom Tov clothes not to mention bar mitzvahs and wedding expenses and then grandchildren and the expenses of being decent parents and grandparents and the occasional vacation that always costs more when you are a kosher consumer the high costs of seminary’s for older children it’s a miracle most people are not saddled with debt! And that’s without keeping up with the Schwartz’s and the Cohens!!


This will spinoff into :
Number of children - don't have kids if you can't afford them
Cost of tuition - send to public school
Outrageous rental fees - live oot in more affordable area
Sheitels - wear snoods
Bar Mitzvahs and weddings - can be done in the backyard
Grandchildren - should learn to stand on their own feet
And more.

Wink
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amother




Floralwhite
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 9:15 pm
amother [ Papaya ] wrote:
That's where fiscal prudence comes in. You can have cash reserves which can carry you through life's crisises. My consistently living below your means and saving consistently, you can build up cash reserves.


Sure, you can try. But Hashem really does run the show. Many people would love to be earning a higher income but Hashem just is not opening that option up to them. So they won't necessarily have the cash reserves to carry them through crisis. People are saving for emergencies, for retirement, for marrying off their kids. That's a lot of savings.
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amother




Khaki
 

Post  Mon, Jan 13 2020, 9:39 pm
[quote="zaq"]Absolutely. Paamonim in Israel is an org that teaches people how to get out of debt and stay there. The first thing that has to go is the “magia li umagia li achshav” mindset. The second thing that has to go is the credit card and any other debt-generating program like layaway, buy-now-take-11-months-to-pay, and so , one must have some sort of income.

HAHAHA. The $17,000 and counting that we owe on our tuition does not come from a "magia li" mindset.
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amother




Wine
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 6:59 am
lilies wrote:
This will spinoff into :
Number of children - don't have kids if you can't afford them
Cost of tuition - send to public school
Outrageous rental fees - live oot in more affordable area
Sheitels - wear snoods
Bar Mitzvahs and weddings - can be done in the backyard
Grandchildren - should learn to stand on their own feet
And more.

Wink

Are you serious? What about a business fail? Is this also planned? I was always very careful. And? Hashem wanted differently. I'm at the tail end of paying back all my debts. But I don't have any savings. And no children? Why I have to be childless because I am in debt? People who are in debt are also allowed to LIVE! That is what I learned from my experience.
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amother




Papaya
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 7:55 am
amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:
Sure, you can try. But Hashem really does run the show. Many people would love to be earning a higher income but Hashem just is not opening that option up to them. So they won't necessarily have the cash reserves to carry them through crisis. People are saving for emergencies, for retirement, for marrying off their kids. That's a lot of savings.


There will always be defense mechanisms posted on imamother justifying why people aren't making it financially. The poster who said her business failed because Hashem wanted it to is not taking into account that Hashem would have wanted her to succeed if she had a viable business plan.

While you can't plan for every emergency, you can plan for emergencies. Long before I spent, I saved money. I am not unique. Read The Millionaire Next Door. Those people who made it followed the same fiscally prudent approach.

I did research on what was the highest paid profession and then changed careers. There is no one I know who worked in that profession who did not make it financially.

There's no magic. Sure there are some people who made much more money than me, but I am risk adverse and am happy with what we accomplished. I buy kosher food and always paid full tuition.
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amother




Floralwhite
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 8:01 am
amother [ Papaya ] wrote:
There will always be defense mechanisms posted on imamother justifying why people aren't making it financially. The poster who said her business failed because Hashem wanted it to is not taking into account that Hashem would have wanted her to succeed if she had a viable business plan.


Nope, you have absolutely no idea whether or not Hashem would have wanted her to succeed. What nonsense. If you want to believe that anyone can have enough savings for every crisis that could come their way, go ahead. I'll stick to reality, and Hashem.
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amother




Pewter
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 8:25 am
I and dh planned on never getting into cc debt. We weren't even going to use a cc at all except to build credit. But G-d had other plans in store for us. Firstly, fil decided to dump all cc debt from all of dh's yeshiva years and wedding prep on us and decided not to pay back my parents for some stuff here had agreed to for the wedding. We took the fall for it all because of my in-laws shaky Shalom Bayis, which we thought we needed to protect, and as to not make issues between me parents and his parents. I'm still not sure we did the right thing. We ended up starting our financial trajectory on the wrong foot and have still not recovered 10 years later. There were also a few other curve balls, like a lawyer we needed to hire directly because of another of dh's family members. And a bit of medical debt. I think we are now down to between 10-20k in CC debt, and b"h, with our salaries, hope to eliminate it soon. But we should have really been up to buying a house at this point, and it seems so out of reach. I feel I will be stuck in my basement apartment forever. (My husband works in a commission based field and it's really unpredictable what he'll earn in any given time period, but he thinks, that with a few of the deals he's working on, we will be out of debt and working on a down payment. However, I'm a bit more pessimistic than him... )
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pause




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 8:35 am
amother [ Papaya ] wrote:
There will always be defense mechanisms posted on imamother justifying why people aren't making it financially. The poster who said her business failed because Hashem wanted it to is not taking into account that Hashem would have wanted her to succeed if she had a viable business plan.

While you can't plan for every emergency, you can plan for emergencies. Long before I spent, I saved money. I am not unique. Read The Millionaire Next Door. Those people who made it followed the same fiscally prudent approach.

I did research on what was the highest paid profession and then changed careers. There is no one I know who worked in that profession who did not make it financially.

There's no magic. Sure there are some people who made much more money than me, but I am risk adverse and am happy with what we accomplished. I buy kosher food and always paid full tuition.


Do tell.
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lilies




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 8:36 am
amother [ Wine ] wrote:
Are you serious? What about a business fail? Is this also planned? I was always very careful. And? Hashem wanted differently. I'm at the tail end of paying back all my debts. But I don't have any savings. And no children? Why I have to be childless because I am in debt? People who are in debt are also allowed to LIVE! That is what I learned from my experience.


I was kidding. I thought it was obvious.
I'm with you all the way.
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HonesttoGod




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Jan 14 2020, 9:34 am
I believe there are curveballs. And things we can’t plan for. Obviously. Gd runs the world no denying that.

BUT
There are so so so many things that I see are “mandatory” and “the must do” in communities and then everyone is crying debt.
No one said to make a backyard wedding but no one said to invite 500 people, have a 10 piece band, a choir, a singer, and a shmorg for the world before the actual wedding dinner.
No one said to never ever go on vacation but no one said to go on a first class flight to Spain followed by a weeks stay in a 5star kosher program.

Get where I’m going? It’s about balance and living within your means.
Credit cards saved us when my husbands work took a dip but once we got back on our feet we paid off every penny of debt and saved up 4 months of expenses as an emergency fund and now we live within our means. It’s not hard it just takes devotion, will, and a strong back against the “cohens”.
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