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Can we up our manners game?
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jan 17 2020, 12:46 pm
amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:
Yesterday I was in Walmart with my husband. He walks fast and moves around with his cart fast. He never pushes or anything. But if you take too long to move he will cut you off. We had two carts. One me one him.

Behind me I heard some lady talking about how Jewish people walk around like they own everything. She kept going on and on. It was actually terrifying. The thing is. He didn't hurt anyone. He just has a fast way about him. I'm a mouse apologizing for my very existence. Stopping for every human in sight.

We didn't do anything or touch anyone. And still we were f-ing Jewish people.... Diseased Jewish people. Who walk around like we own the place. And spread measles.

I don't think even good manners can save us from someone who wants to find fault with us.


I'm not even sure what it means to cut someone off with a shopping cart. Driving, it means going into their lane without leaving appropriate room; its dangerous. But that doesn't really apply shopping. Unless she was clearly getting into a checkout lane, and he went around her and jammed his cart in line in front of her, which would be rude; or he rushed in for the last item on super special.

But as I said, if he was rude, then the appropriate response is to call out his rudeness. Only an antisemite would attribute it to his religion.
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flowerpower




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jan 17 2020, 12:57 pm
Simple1 wrote:
I said this on another thread that I noticed shoving and pushing to board when I went on the Staten Island Ferry. It was NOT a Jewish/frum crowd.

But I do agree it's good to do our part and be as polite as possible.


I agree! I started really observing whether we jews are less mannered in public. Each time I went on outings with my kids, took public transportation, went to big parks etc....The answer was NO. If someone does something that is not 100% perfect then it׳s okay. If a jew does the same thing then it’s a hugggge chillul hashem. OF COURSE we have to behave our best at all times but we definitely aren’t that bad as a whole.
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icebreaker




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Jan 17 2020, 1:03 pm
Honestly, this is a NY thing. Taking the 7 train is an absolute nightmare with people shoving you to the side for a seat and it’s not frum Jews going to Flushing. I think yes, we should always be well-mannered, but people are going to hate us regardless. We’re already slumlords, spread measles, taking over Ocean and Rockland counties. I guess we can add shovers to the list. (/s)
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amother




Chocolate
 

Post  Fri, Jan 17 2020, 1:16 pm
I think that the hate amongst us Jews causes more anti semitism than our manners.
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amother




Olive
 

Post  Fri, Jan 17 2020, 1:18 pm
amother [ Chocolate ] wrote:
I think that the hate amongst us Jews causes more anti semitism than our manners.


Ridiculous. Jews aren’t going around every day stabbing other Jews.
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amother




Chocolate
 

Post  Fri, Jan 17 2020, 1:24 pm
amother [ Olive ] wrote:
Ridiculous. Jews aren’t going around every day stabbing other Jews.


Stabbing isn't the only antisemitic act. We have to remember that we are being recorded and everything is posted on social media. The polics, the fights, the disrespect. Last week in Williamsburg to guys were fighting like cats and dogs over a silly parking spot. A crowd of non jews gathered around recording the fight. Afew weeks ago 2 guys were hitting each others in middle of the street in Brooklyn. Let's not get started on what happens in New Square if someone doesn't follow exactly what they're told to do. These go right onto social media.
Same goes for parking at a pump, talking disrespectful to police officers giving you a ticket you deserve, double parking, or anything jews that think they're above the law do.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Fri, Jan 17 2020, 1:26 pm
We ARE taking over ocean and rockland counties. Nobody can stop us from reproducing, or moving to locations that we see fit. However, developers strongarming non-jewish residents to sell their house, going into communities, and then pushing to change the zoning laws, taking over the school district, trampling on peoples grass and then screaming anti-semitism when they ask you not to, bec. you're using it as a shortcut to go to shul, - that needs to stop. We need to be better neighbors.
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amother




Floralwhite
 

Post  Fri, Jan 17 2020, 1:34 pm
I meant he will take the right of way and just move so as not to block up an aisle. Cut off was the wrong term. Either way it looks like entitled behavior. Not because it is. But because he looks like a Jew.

I hope no one here REALLY BELIEVES that anymore deserves to be treated with antisemitism. I mean do we think a Chinese, or a gay, a black or a hick or a Indian, or a Sikh or whatever person deserves to have prejudices flung at him? Because they weren't aware of the person behind them. Or they pushed to make a train. Would you say oh that dirty japanese guy deserves to be hurt because he is a rude Japanese guy???

You know if the lady had just called my husband or that girl that shoves on the train or WHOEVER ... If they just called the person an @$$hole then MAYBE they really care about manners. But if the person says "dirty Jews" or "fag" or or anything of the like I assure you they aren't concerned with manners.

Once they start flinging slurs at you I promise you there is not a single thing you will EVER be able to do to ingratiate yourself to that antisemite or bigot or whatever.

Now. In the question of power and powerlessness. I always err to the side of apologize for my existence. So if there's one seat left and I'm 9 months pregnant but someone clearly not Jewish wants to sit, I give it to them. I am always in the business of being polite a woman, as a white girl, as an Israeli as a Jew. But I'm wrong.

I can be socially acceptable and if I make a mistake. I'd be fine with someone calling me an @$$hole but if they call me a dirty Jew that's not on me and it's not on ANY OF US.
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Ruchel




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Jan 18 2020, 3:22 pm
Newsflash you can have the most prussian manners haters will hate
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 19 2020, 7:58 am
A few thoughts:
1.No, we shouldn't speak LH about Jewish people.
2. Yes, we need to find ways we need to improve.
a. Ways we need to improve, not how yenem needs to improve.
b. Will it bring yeshuos? Maybe. But we have to do it not so they'll like us but because it is, objectively, the right thing to do.
3. Re 2a: are there things that others are doing that are making a tremendous chillul Hashem that make us say ouch? Sadly, yes. I will try to ask some wise people I know what we should be doing. So easy to point at yenem and ignore our own chesronos but more to the point, is there anything we can and should be doing to get them to stop? I don't know, but I won't belabor it online. See point 1.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 19 2020, 9:51 am
LOL, I'm assuming none of you have ever been in an Israeli grocery store, especially erev Shabbos. Don't even get me started on erev yom tov.

Jews cut off Jews in line. They leave their strollers and carts at an angle blocking off the grocery aisles. The leave their cart in the checkout line while they go and finish their shopping, and if you go around their cart they scream at you. Little kids run hefker, crashing into your legs and then looking at you like it's all your fault. Parents don't care.

At some bus and train stops, it's nearly impossible to get out, because so many people are pushing to get on. Men, kids, women with strollers, they are all shoving their way in. I keep telling them that if they don't let me out, there will be no room for them to get in, but nobody listens. It happens every. single. day. (To avoid bashing, I will not mention which neighborhoods, but you can guess.)

Some people say it's rude (mostly Anglos and Europeans), and some say it's cultural (Israelis and Russians). It's a shove or get shoved society, and you need a thick skin to survive. It's a tough country, but I suppose that's why it still exists against all odds, so I'll just learn to deal with it.
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amother




Forestgreen
 

Post  Sun, Jan 19 2020, 10:01 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
LOL, I'm assuming none of you have ever been in an Israeli grocery store, especially erev Shabbos. Don't even get me started on erev yom tov.

Jews cut off Jews in line. They leave their strollers and carts at an angle blocking off the grocery aisles. The leave their cart in the checkout line while they go and finish their shopping, and if you go around their cart they scream at you. Little kids run hefker, crashing into your legs and then looking at you like it's all your fault. Parents don't care.

At some bus and train stops, it's nearly impossible to get out, because so many people are pushing to get on. Men, kids, women with strollers, they are all shoving their way in. I keep telling them that if they don't let me out, there will be no room for them to get in, but nobody listens. It happens every. single. day. (To avoid bashing, I will not mention which neighborhoods, but you can guess.)

Some people say it's rude (mostly Anglos and Europeans), and some say it's cultural (Israelis and Russians). It's a shove or get shoved society, and you need a thick skin to survive. It's a tough country, but I suppose that's why it still exists against all odds, so I'll just learn to deal with it.


You can't get more self-hating than this. Remind us again why you moved to Israel?
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 19 2020, 10:08 am
amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:
You can't get more self-hating than this. Remind us again why you moved to Israel?


Do you care to edit that personal attack to go under your user name? You really should own your words if you are going to make a statement like that.

You have to live here to understand. Everyone has this sort of love/hate relationship with the country, and we laugh about it. It's kind of like "I can call my momma fat, but if you call my momma fat then we're gonna fight."

I don't see any self hatred in this. I love this country! I love the people, even when they frustrate me. I remind myself every day that I chose to move here, so it's my job to adapt. Sometimes situations are so absurd, that I think that if I made a sitcom, people would think I was just making it up.

Expecting an entire country to adapt to my culture of origin is the height of arrogance. I hate that my Hebrew is so weak. I feel like I come across as an entitled brat when I need someone to speak English to me. If there's any "self hatred", it's because most people still see me as "ha Americanit", instead of a citizen.
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amother




Mustard
 

Post  Sun, Jan 19 2020, 10:25 am
I can't comment on subways but there are Jewish grocery stores that I refuse to enter because the conduct of the shoppers is so appalling. I don't observe this type of conduct in regular supermarkets except in the rarest of situations.

I don't like feeling that I am being abused and taken advantage of nor do I want to adapt my behavior to conform with the frenzy around me.

I don't understand how this is viewed as anti-Semitic as it is an objective observation.

Why are people so defensive?
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ectomorph




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 19 2020, 11:48 am
PinkFridge wrote:
A few thoughts:
1.No, we shouldn't speak LH about Jewish people.
2. Yes, we need to find ways we need to improve.
a. Ways we need to improve, not how yenem needs to improve.
b. Will it bring yeshuos? Maybe. But we have to do it not so they'll like us but because it is, objectively, the right thing to do.
3. Re 2a: are there things that others are doing that are making a tremendous chillul Hashem that make us say ouch? Sadly, yes. I will try to ask some wise people I know what we should be doing. So easy to point at yenem and ignore our own chesronos but more to the point, is there anything we can and should be doing to get them to stop? I don't know, but I won't belabor it online. See point 1.

This
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