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8 year old being mechalel Shobbas
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 7:53 am
I walked into my eight year old daughter's room and found her coloring with markers on Shobbas. Apparently, I found out, this was not the first time she's done it. I told her it was wrong and that she could not be in her room by herself
Should I have had a stronger reaction? How concerned should I be? Yes, she's eight, but she knows better so is this a slippery slope? She also refuses to daven and I think just pretends to bentch. Sneaky behavior is not unusual for her.
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thunderstorm




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 7:56 am
I don’t know how I’d approach it but I don’t think it’s right to tell her she can’t be in a room by herself. That’s sending a message that she can’t be trusted. An 8yr old should be able to feel like she could be trusted.
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ectomorph




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 7:57 am
I would be concerned about the general sneakiness. She should be in therapy.

However, if she hides doing aveiros that's normal for that age. I used to pretend to daven and say my AbCs or take candy without permission at that age. I think that is pretty normal, and I'm a very frum normal person today.

Don't label her as sneaky cuz she'll live up to it. Do get in touch with a well recommended professional in real life to talk about issues as they arise - we can't help u much online.
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avrahamama




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 7:57 am
I'm no expert. I dont think this is sneaky behavior. It looks like she has some questions and comments on her yiddishkeit but doesn't know how to approach it or discuss it. So she is testing the waters in other ways.

I would definitely take a gentler approach and help her build her relationship with HKBH
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malki2




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 7:58 am
Well how do you react if you catch her doing something that really upsets you? If chillul Shabbos really upsets you, you should act the same way. 8 years old is already up to chinuch age.
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 8:00 am
I would talk to her about all the muksa things she has in her room, and how they should be put away for shabbos so that it isnt used by mistake. (She is to young to do something on purpose. My friends dd does this sometimes because the muksa things are around, so she uses them without thinking)


Please stock her room with puzzles, books, dolls and legos... so that she can play with something on shabbos
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amother
Cyan


 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 8:00 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I walked into my eight year old daughter's room and found her coloring with markers on Shobbas. Apparently, I found out, this was not the first time she's done it. I told her it was wrong and that she could not be in her room by herself
Should I have had a stronger reaction? How concerned should I be? Yes, she's eight, but she knows better so is this a slippery slope? She also refuses to daven and I think just pretends to bentch. Sneaky behavior is not unusual for her.

I don't know if I'd class it as sneaky. It sounds like she doesn't want to keep mitzvos, maybe, and is afraid of your reaction.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 8:04 am
malki2 wrote:
Well how do you react if you catch her doing something that really upsets you? If chillul Shabbos really upsets you, you should act the same way. 8 years old is already up to chinuch age.


This is an interesting question.
But we have to look at our goals. If something upsets us, why? It's because we want our children to adopt certain behaviors and mindsets. So what we have to do here is figure out, why is this a nisayon? Is coloring such a beloved activity she can't give it up? As important as teaching delayed gratification is, the major goal is to love Shabbos. I ask OP: what can you get so that she will love Shabbos? Any toys or games to invest in? Are you available to walk her to friends, Bnos, the park when it gets warm?
I also strongly urge you to consult someone IRL. Don't rush. Take your time. Evaluate eitzos you get and the eitzos giver till you find someone who really will work with you. Rav Matisyahu Salomon, shlita, has written books on chinuch and they not only have emunah in the titles, but love.

Hatzlacha!
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amother
Cyan


 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 8:08 am
amother [ Blonde ] wrote:
I would talk to her about all the muksa things she has in her room, and how they should be put away for shabbos so that it isnt used by mistake. (She is to young to do something on purpose. My friends dd does this sometimes because the muksa things are around, so she uses them without thinking)


Please stock her room with puzzles, books, dolls and legos... so that she can play with something on shabbos

No my 8yo could definitely be mechalel shabbos on purpose, but those aren't the issues we push, and usually the issue is impulse control. Keeping Shabbos is important but I want it to be a positive experience, not about punishments and fear.
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amother
Papaya


 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 8:09 am
You are very strict with her!
She is a kid!!
You speak to her about hashem loving her loving is bench; loving her tfiloth;loving her mitsvots..you only speak about love of hashem !!this is the hinuch age!!!
And please don't check on her, it is so oppressive!leave her alone in her room..
If she do it again do a mitsva chart...
You have to be very positive with her!!!
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 8:17 am
Instead of an ETA, I'll do a different post. I focused on Shabbos in my other post. OP, extrapolate for all avodas Hashem. Don't worry about the slippery slope, don't imagine a full-fledge OTD rebel in 10 years. All you can and should be doing right now is creating a happy environment of love, and joy in avodas Hashem.

What you should be able to do is, with love and chochma, is facilitate your daughter giving up her markers on Shabbos. Other things, like bensching, etc. should not be pushed. Your daughter knows when it's time to bensch, she sees everyone else doing it. You can get a few fun benschers (I.e. one with pictures) and then let her pick up the cue. Remember, she is in school, and just learning to bensch and daven. I hope that she is getting good associations and reinforcements from school. Your job is NOT to be school. What you can do is show your own excitement, in an organic, not forced way.

I have no idea what kind of chinuch and messages and associations you got and have. Now is the time to call on them, or create a new paradigm.
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amother
OP


 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 9:11 am
Thank you everyone. I do want to buy special Shobbas toys/books to make the day feel special. Any suggestions?
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amother
Pumpkin


 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 9:17 am
This sounds like she may have told ADHD. Coloring on Shabbos seems like it's coming from a lack of impulse control. And having a hard time davening is a classic sign too. I was very similar to this at this age and so is dd. While coloring on Shabbos wasn't the issue for me, taking and stealing food was. And eating milchigs after fleishigs. When I got caught by my mother, she made me correct the wrong doing if necessary, but she remained calm. She knew I would outgrow it, and I did.
Regarding davening, if you suspect that ADHD is a factor here, don't push it. She is likely doing the best she can. She may never become the best davener, and that's ok. Medication would probably help for this, but if she's doing ok otherwise, this one issue side not warrant it. I am still not the best davener, and I still sometimes lose concentration during benching, but I'm a very frum woman who has and works on a good relationship with Hashem.
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amother
Pumpkin


 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 9:20 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thank you everyone. I do want to buy special Shobbas toys/books to make the day feel special. Any suggestions?


That's a great idea. Definitely ask her. I suspect creative toys might be a good idea if she likes coloring. Maybe building toys, like clicks or magna tiles. Also, expect her to still slip up now and then, but lessen in frequency until it's no longer an issue. Try to remain calm about it.
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amother
Papaya


 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 9:34 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thank you everyone. I do want to buy special Shobbas toys/books to make the day feel special. Any suggestions?

Does she likes Playmobil?
I have a friend who save the Playmobil for the shabbess..
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 9:45 am
Wow. OP, I don’t blame you for being upset. It IS upsetting. I have found some of my kids in similar situations over the years.... including finding my son hiding in the back of his closet with an iPad!
Personally, I told them it made me really sad. Because they are so holy and so smart and to do this was beneath them. I didn’t yell or punish or make new strict rules. Because I think to do so risks that they will hate Shabbos, risks that they will just learn to be more sneaky, and risks them feeling terrible about themselves (which they should not. They should hopefully regret the behavior but not feel that they are bad).
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flowerpower




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 9:47 am
Honestly, the benching thing seems age appropriate. At that age many kids don’t want to bench yet. I sometimes bench together with them and tell them that they don’t have to say the whole thing.

The coloring thing scares me more. At this age they are supposed to develop yiras shomayim and control themselves from doing muktzah things. I’d ask a smart mechanech how to go about it. The buying special toys for shabbos is a good start.
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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 9:56 am
My 8 year old says she’s not sure if god exists
But also she won’t look at a smartphone because her school is against it and will only wear dresses that cover her knees.
Oh if I would take her seriously every time she says or does something I would freak out either way that she’s going otd or turning into a fanatic.
The kid is 8. She isn’t thinking about the future and neither should you. Focus on the now. But if you will put it into her head that she’s a heretic she will be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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itsmeima




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 11:02 am
Personally I’d say “ oh no, I’m so sorry, it looks like you forgot it was Shabbos, it’s okay, that happens. I once forgot it was Shabbos and closed my alarm clock. I told Hashem I’m sorry. Hashem understands that we are human and make mistakes sometimes, it’s okay! Want me to read you a story?”
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amother
Crimson


 

Post Sun, Jan 19 2020, 11:06 am
Eight is little
She shouldn’t be doing that but don’t freak
Teach her - but with understanding
We’re not always so perfect ourselves
We don’t “color” but in our own grown up way
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