DD obsessed with xmas

imasinger

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 6:29 am

I see a couple of factors.

1. It sounds like DD is interested in being able to tell someone what present she's wishing for, and then get it. Do you know what her wishes are? Is it possible that the reason she's obsessed with this is because there's something she wants? Is there a way for her to get it in a Jewish setting?

2. DD has someone telling her that they get the "best of both." Help her see that's not true. Lighting a menorah or getting presents for both December holidays doesn't really mean "celebrating" both. While Malki2 expresses it more harshly than I might, I agree with her that underlying the desire for Santa and all is probably a sense that she's missing out on something. The richer her own Jewish life is, the less she'd miss. Find out what this friend is not doing Jewishly that DD enjoys, and let her know that you feel sorry for anyone who doesn't get to do this.

How meaningful and child friendly are your Shabbos and YT observances? Can you think about enriching them further?

What do you do to make Shabbos special for your DD? If you haven't already done so, maybe get kits or wonderful craft projects for her to make meaningful decorations that you can put out weekly and replace as needed. A challah cover. Foil art. Flowers. And let her help decorate the Shabbos table and dining room. Make sure every week she has a small treat she can choose. Make sure she gets quality time during Shabbos day.

Does she go to a frum preschool/daycare? You said it's Jewish, but not every Jewish school gives the same enthusiasm. Does she have a weekly parsha project? Do you admire it at the Shabbos table? Can you consider making a parsha related dessert each week, with her help?

Listen to/read Jewish stories. Talk frequently about how lucky we are to have Shabbos, Tu B'shevat, Purim, Pesach, etc. I told my kids I feel sorry for those who make such a major fuss about one dinky day, because they don't have special times every week, every month.

Stay away from the mall and public library with her during December/January. I'm starting to see Valentine's decorations and themes come up, so hopefully, that won't appeal to her as much. Consider instead taking her to a Jewish library, a Jewish museum or bookstore. Check out Torah Tots, and other online resources.

DD's obsession could turn out to be the best thing that happened to you all, if it becomes an opportunity to lead to an even happier and more fulfilled Jewish life.

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 6:33 am

malki2 wrote:

Wow you guys finally answered my question! I was never sure if the hearts icons meant loves or tomatoes. I now know with certainty that it means tomatoes! Sorry guys. My answer stays. You can send more hearts. I tried being gentle with my answer, but the truth is that I’ve been in both worlds and I know what I am talking about. A large percentage of MO needs to do a better job engendering within their children a love for Judaism, Mitzvot, Shabbat, and Yamim Tovim. And until you’ve been in both worlds, it’s hard to understand what I mean. But I strongly believe it to be true. And you don’t have to like my answer, but the OP has a problem and was asking for help. This is my personal diagnosis.

Please dont generalize. I can unfortunately generalize about the charedim that I personally know that have gone off the derech because the homes they grew up in were too strict and there was no love shown for judaism, only rules, rules, rules.
I wont generalize an entire population from what I know. Just like you shouldnt from what you know. It is not like that in the entire MO community.

And on top of that, a 4 year old wanting x-mas has NOTHING to do with parents not showing love for the jewish things.

FranticFrummie

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 6:49 am

DrMom wrote:

That's an odd thing to say. Why?

We can tell our children that these other religions are false (we say it explicitly in Aleinu) without distorting their mythologies. What's going to happen when she grows up and learn that in Christian tradition (in the US a least*), Santa is a nice jolly guy who gives kids presents. Then she'll wonder, "Hmmm... I wonder what else Ima lied to me about?"

*Off-topic, but Santa has a different appearance and different legends in other parts of the Christian world. Check out this hilarious story by David Sedaris about Santa legends in the Netherlands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?.....;t=1s

This is just genius. Oh my gosh, I laughed so hard, I'm CRYING! I scared my dog and my two cats, and they had to come and check on me. LOL

It's worth watching all 3 clips. I only wish he'd mentioned Krampus. That would have been the cherry on top. Twisted Evil

FranticFrummie

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 6:56 am

imasinger wrote:

DD has someone telling her that they get the "best of both." Help her see that's not true..

I agree with everything else, but I don't see convincing a child of your logic.

If you had a million dollars, but you could have two million dollars, wouldn't you want that? Of course you'd rather have more! Having both holidays feels like having two million dollars, when you're 4 years old.

When you are older you realize that you wouldn't trade Judaism for anything in the world, and that it's priceless. That takes maturity, though.

chanchy123

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 7:14 am

First things first, your DD is four, that's very young. Don't worry your daughter is not leaving Judaism so fast. I understand Xmas is exciting, my kids, who've lived in Israel all their lives enjoy watching x-mas themed TV shows, they know that this is something that we just watch and is not related to our lives.
My advice is not to make a big deal about this obsession and I agree that you should focus on making Judaism exciting and meaningful. Once DD realizes Purim is just around the corner I'm sure she won't care about X mas anymore.
I think DD can understand that although her friend might seem to have the best of both worlds xmas and Hannuka she probably isn't fortunate enough to celebrate shabbat like we do (24 hours when mom and dad only focus on their family and don't use their phones), Purim is probably not a big deal in this friends home either etc. etc.
Maybe even make a big to-do about Tu Bishvat, plan a seder, make decorations etc.
I don't think there is any need to denigrate X-mas at that age. Just build up what we do have in our religion and how fortunate we are to have it. Also, Imasinger's advice about finding elements that appeal to your DD in Xmas and incorporating them (cleverly - so she doesn't realize this is a "replacement") in your family or religious practices is also a great idea.
Malki2 - your post is not worth an actual response. Many of us tread very lightly in order to respect the Chasidish community despite serious criticism we have. Please show us the same courtesy.s.

malki2

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 8:13 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Ok. I hear you. I’m sorry for generalizing. You are correct that there is a lot of good all around and a lot of problems all around. I agree that nothing good comes from generalizing. I‘ll try to make my points in the future without calling out specific denominations of good Jews.

mlc

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 8:49 am

malki2 wrote:

WADR, and I obviously don’t know you, but I do feel that your DD is obsessed with Xmas because you do not give her enough positive feelings about Chanuka and the other holidays and aspects of Yiddishkeit. I don’t think that this is a problem among Chasidim, for example, not because they don’t expose their kids to Xmas, but mainly because there is such a focus on making Yiddishkeit real and enjoyable and the main focus of their lives, that the kids have no desire to go anywhere. I feel very strongly, for example, that the kids who are using their cell phones on Shabbos are doing so because they were never introduced by their parents to the real sweetness of Shabbos. I am not trying by this to incriminate any sector of Judaism, but I’m just trying to answer your question. Shabbos, Yom Tov, and Mitzvos and the true enjoyment of them really have to be made into a main focus of your lives. Only them will your DD not care about Xmas and Santa Claus.

Wow....

My 3.5 yr old daughter is also obsessed with xmas, she’s obsessed with Halloween as well. When I say obsessed, I mean obsessed.

She is a very happy girl and LOVES shabbos and yom tov. But she is bright enough to pick up on what is going on in the world. She sees other holidays going on and it looks exciting. Of course it looks exciting. Its a holiday! And there is all this marketing going on, even a Target run is enough to get a kid wishing they had Halloween or Xmas.

malki2

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 9:58 am

chanchy123 wrote:

.

I’m not Chasidish, but I apologized above for generalizing and singling our a single community. Sorry for the lack of courtesy.

amother

Sienna

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 10:05 am

Does your daughter go to school/daycare/playgroup?
Honestly, that's what makes the difference, if she is in a Jewish (orthodox) one, or not.
A friend sent her 7 year old to public school for a year, because he was very behind academically in reading and the frum school he had been in didn't know how to address it. He caught up academically in the ps in just a few months, but she was very upset when he came home in December asking if they would celebrate xmas. This didn't come from the teacher (who was very culturally sensitive) but from interaction with the other kids. He went back to his yeshiva elementary school the next year....

urban gypsy

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 10:15 am

BadTichelDay wrote:

Sometimes it's a false alert, when innocent snow appears in a video.

My kids watch a lot of media but it is carefully selected by me (they are not allowed to watch YouTube, only DVDs and Netflix) so when it is an Xmas heavy episode I will simply skip that one. I don't make a huge freak out about it, I just tell them that not all content is appropriate for Jewish children to watch, and if they want to watch videos, the rule is that they can only watch things that are appropriate for them. They are very good about self censorship. I laughed about snow being a false alarm, that's totally accurate LOL!

Their dad scares them about how bad/gross Xmas is, but I don't think that is healthy and I just react very calmly and disinterestedly towards anything Xmas related and if they comment on lights or Santa or whatever, I just say "It's lucky that we live in a safe country where everyone can celebrate their holidays freely. Xmas has nothing to do with Jewish people so you don't need to worry about it." Lately they've taken to saying C-mas instead of X-mas which I find super irritating. I tried explaining to them what the C word means and that when they say it, it's like they are calling J Moshiach, which is wrong. It didn't really stick and they continued saying it sometimes, which I've decided to ignore for now till they get a bit older. But so far they are very calm and neutral about Xmas.

I vehemently disagree with posters who are saying that OP isn't doing a good job of instilling love for Judaism in her child. What an obnoxious thing to say!!! SHE IS FOUR YEARS OLD! Malki2 I guarantee that if you get your 4 year old in a room with lights, cookies, gifts, a tree, and songs, she will fold quicker than a deck of cards. Your premise is just ridiculous!!! OP I don't know what to do about the interaction with the other child that celebrates both holidays. I would just calmly explain that different families have different traditions, and in your family you celebrate Hanukkah. Ask her if there is anything she wants or feels she is missing out on and give it to her to the best of your ability.

SixOfWands

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 10:16 am

BadTichelDay wrote:

My kids come across xmas in youtube videos. From day one I've made a funny kind exagerated fuss about it, yelling loudly "Aaaargh!! Kratzmach alert!! Switch it off, quicklyyyyy! Who can switch it off fast?!" - My kids have taken to copying me and now practice self censorship whenever it turns up. They do a lot of yelling and then switch to a different video. Sometimes it's a false alert, when innocent snow appears in a video. As an explanation I have told them that the red suit guy is actually a nasty person in disguise and that kratzmach is not our chag but belongs to foreign people (we live in Israel, which makes it easier.) So far it seems to work. And we do put a lot of effort into sukkot and give them chanukkah gifts. It sometimes turns up in books which I read to them - then I censor it into chanukkah while reading. I also censor treif food while reading. Of course once they learn to read English (so far they only learn reading Hebrew), they'll find out, but by then I hope they're old enough.

What happens when they realize that you’ve been lying to them? And start wondering what else you’re lying about, if all of this Judaism thing is a lie.

urban gypsy

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 10:16 am

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

He caught up academically in the ps in just a few months, but she was very upset when he came home in December asking if they would celebrate xmas. This didn't come from the teacher (who was very culturally sensitive) but from interaction with the other kids. He went back to his yeshiva elementary school the next year....

What did she expect honestly??? How did she not think to prepare a child for this eventuality?

SixOfWands

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 10:30 am

It is definitely tough for kids.

We can talk about how pretty the lights and decorations are, and how nice it is that we get to share them. And how nice it is that we share our beautiful menorahs with the non-Jews.

We can talk about how Santa is a story that some people tell their children about where the gifts come from, but that it’s not real.

But in the long run, I wouldn’t worry too much. Xmas is certainly attractive. Most kids will notice that. And get over it.

amother

Sienna

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 10:35 am

urban gypsy wrote:

What did she expect honestly??? How did she not think to prepare a child for this eventuality?

I
That's what I said to her when she complained to me:)
The funny thing is, her kids watch a lot of TV, they have definitely been exposed to Xmas music and movies. But it was only when her kid went to ps that it came up....But I think it is easy to compartmentalize things you read or view, it's a different story when you are interacting with friends on a daily basis talking excitedly about their holiday. That's why Jewish schools are crucial and why parents sacrifice to pay tuition!