DD obsessed with xmas

BadTichelDay

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 10:39 am

SixOfWands wrote:

What happens when they realize that you’ve been lying to them? And start wondering what else you’re lying about, if all of this Judaism thing is a lie.

I don't think it's lying.
I mean, Santa doesn't exist to begin with. Telling them he's nasty is just as meaningless as saying that he's good. When they are old enough to understand the "lie", they'll also know he's a commercial figure anyway.

Regarding the books, I want to read them all the classic childrens' books from my own childhood. But if Pippi Longstocking ate ham or chicken - who cares? Why can't the speaking animals have a chanukkiah instead of an x-mas tree?

If they ever read those books on their own, why should that harm their belief in Judaism? Also, by the time they learn to read English, they'll probably be too old to want to read those books.

amother

Lime

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 10:41 am

DrMom wrote:

That's an odd thing to say. Why?

We can tell our children that these other religions are false (we say it explicitly in Aleinu) without distorting their mythologies. What's going to happen when she grows up and learn that in Christian tradition (in the US a least*), Santa is a nice jolly guy who gives kids presents. Then she'll wonder, "Hmmm... I wonder what else Ima lied to me about?"

*Off-topic, but Santa has a different appearance and different legends in other parts of the Christian world. Check out this hilarious story by David Sedaris about Santa legends in the Netherlands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?.....;t=1s

I agree with you. The Gentile holidays are meaningful to non-jews. We have to show children we respect it.

Every religion is here for a purpose even if it is not all truth; every religion is a design of hashem.

We ARE allowed to say that some things that gentiles do are paganism, like what is quoted in aleinu.

chanchy123

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 10:42 am

SixOfWands wrote:

What happens when they realize that you’ve been lying to them? And start wondering what else you’re lying about, if all of this Judaism thing is a lie.

This is a bit off topic but close enough, so I'll post. What about all the gentile kids who realize that Santa is a huge industry based on lying to kids (the tooth fairy gets me angry too - but it's less of an industry)?
How does that work? I'd be furious if I figured out one day that a fundamental feature of my greatest holiday was a fabrication.

amother

Lime

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 10:53 am

chanchy123 wrote:

Santa has tremendous meaning for
children. The fascination lasts till a child is developmentally a pre-teen when they gain the ability to see beyond "black and white". The pleasure it gives children is worth the fabrication.

And, humans make a huge industry about everything in life that is important to them.

amother

Orchid

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 10:56 am

I have a dear friend who is a bt and lives in a very open modern community. She often expresses how she wishes she can turn back the clock and "un-expose" her kids to various things. Not xtian things, mind you, but things that aren't haven't the best influence on their jewishness in general.
So op, while others dismiss this as a stage they also want through, I think it's a good opportunity to take a step back and reassess what things u want ur dd exposed to as she grows up. She's clearly a smart, impressionable child who is curious about things around her. I don't think ur chinuch is necessarily lacking in love for yiddishkeit as some posters assume. I think the issue is rather that she has an over-exposure to ppl and practices that are not part of a Jewish lifestyle. You should be clearer and more confident when saying "we don't do this" and careful about exposing her to jewish media and filtering the non-Jewish ones. This doesn't have to be with any drama, but rather like urban gypsy and others describe. And while we should be respectful to e/o around us, overdoing the "respect and tolerance" for those who don't live with our values can backfire. I'm not advocating lengthy lectures and explanations, but an overall attitude of choosing to spend time with ppl and watch things that either reinforce ur values and lifestyle or at least don't contradict them.
For this specific situation, I would try to see what specifically she is attracted to and how u can give her that packaged in sth jewish-related, and then work on providing more jewish media content.

amother

Pink

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 11:30 am

chanchy123 wrote:

First things first, your DD is four, that's very young. Don't worry your daughter is not leaving Judaism so fast. I understand Xmas is exciting, my kids, who've lived in Israel all their lives enjoy watching x-mas themed TV shows, they know that this is something that we just watch and is not related to our lives.
My advice is not to make a big deal about this obsession and I agree that you should focus on making Judaism exciting and meaningful. Once DD realizes Purim is just around the corner I'm sure she won't care about X mas anymore.
I think DD can understand that although her friend might seem to have the best of both worlds xmas and Hannuka she probably isn't fortunate enough to celebrate shabbat like we do (24 hours when mom and dad only focus on their family and don't use their phones), Purim is probably not a big deal in this friends home either etc. etc.
Maybe even make a big to-do about Tu Bishvat, plan a seder, make decorations etc.
I don't think there is any need to denigrate X-mas at that age. Just build up what we do have in our religion and how fortunate we are to have it. Also, Imasinger's advice about finding elements that appeal to your DD in Xmas and incorporating them (cleverly - so she doesn't realize this is a "replacement") in your family or religious practices is also a great idea.
Malki2 - your post is not worth an actual response. Many of us tread very lightly in order to respect the Chasidish community despite serious criticism we have. Please show us the same courtesy.s.

Why would you think she is chassidish? Maybe you owe the community an apology...

amother

Pink

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 11:33 am

sunflower416 wrote:

There was a good thread about this a few years ago; hoping fellow moms can give me some updated pointers for my situation. I’m sure I’m not the only one in this boat.

It’s been over for almost a month now yet 4 y/o DD is still obsessed with Xmas. She goes to Jewish school but of course it’s still everywhere (Santa in the mall, Xmas kid’s books at the library, etc).
We are MO, with gentile friends and neighbors, and we are raising her to respect other traditions while staying proud of her own. Talking about the brave Maccabees not becoming like the Greeks helps a bit. But then she still says things like - and this is a direct quote - “I wish I was xtian so I could have Santa Claus” (aaaah!). I don’t want to blow things up too big as she’s only 4 and doesn’t really understand when she says things like this but wow does it upset me.
One more twist. It’s not working to say “they do that and we do this” because: DH’s best friend is intermarried, and his half-Jewish kid is one of my daughter’s good friends. So DD just replies “my friend has Xmas AND Hanukkah, I want to be like him.” 🤦‍♀️ I don’t think saying “intermarriage is a modern tragedy for our people” would be wise given the circumstances.
So, any advice on how best to approach this?

This statement bothers me. There is no such thing as a half Jew. Either her mother or father is Jewish and that determines her Jewishness
I personally know families that were in tremendously difficult situations because someone believed they were Jewish and only years later discovered they weren’t. It puts many people at a disservice to mischaracterize religion.

singleagain

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 11:39 am

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

I agree it is not accurate. But you will not stop people from self identifying as such. And that's prob where it comes from

BH5745

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 11:50 am

OP, we can't have it all unfortunately. We have to make hard decisions: do we want to teach our kids to respect and value everyone's religions the same, or emphasise the superiority of Yiddishkeit (if you in fact do think our religion is superior). Do we want to teach our kids "This is what Hashem says a Jew is" or do we want to leave grey areas of half-Jewish? Would you allow your daughter to refer to her friend with a Jewish mother and non-Jewish father as half-Jewish, or do we teach our kids that that friend is 100% Jewish because her mother is Jewish and a child with a non-Jewish mother is 100% not Jewish? If our friends see us approving of intermarried couples, can we ever expect them to make marrying Jewish a non-negotiable dedication?

More than anything your daughter comes across as intelligent, inquisitive and confused. What does being Jewish mean to her? Does she understand why Yehuda HaMacabee and his sons are heroes, why we don't assimilate, why even when it's hard and not fun to be Jewish we do it anyway? Why Jews throughout the ages choose to die rather than give up on Yiddishkeit?

If not, and it's all relative, then don't be surprised if she wants to celebrate xmas and Chanukah.

urban gypsy

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 11:55 am

BH5745 wrote:

Your post is all over the place.
Judaism is the superior (and only) religion for Jews. It's not the superior religion. Otherwise Hashem would have wanted everyone to be Jewish.
This intermarried couple is part of OP's family. You can approve of PEOPLE without approving of their choices. Especially a little kid who has no choice in how she is raised.
Not sure that teaching a four year old that being Jewish is hard and not fun is the way to go.

amother

Mauve

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 11:56 am

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

Why would you think she is chassidish? Maybe you owe the community an apology...

Maybe because of comment bolded

malki2 wrote:

WADR, and I obviously don’t know you, but I do feel that your DD is obsessed with Xmas because you do not give her enough positive feelings about Chanuka and the other holidays and aspects of Yiddishkeit. I don’t think that this is a problem among Chasidim, for example, not because they don’t expose their kids to Xmas, but mainly because there is such a focus on making Yiddishkeit real and enjoyable and the main focus of their lives, that the kids have no desire to go anywhere. I feel very strongly, for example, that the kids who are using their cell phones on Shabbos are doing so because they were never introduced by their parents to the real sweetness of Shabbos. I am not trying by this to incriminate any sector of Judaism, but I’m just trying to answer your question. Shabbos, Yom Tov, and Mitzvos and the true enjoyment of them really have to be made into a main focus of your lives. Only them will your DD not care about Xmas and Santa Claus.

amother

Sienna

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 12:00 pm

urban gypsy wrote:

Be that as it may, if her best friend is celebrating xmas and talking excitedly abt it, you can't expect a 4 year old to think differently.
That is what I was eluding to in regard to Jewish schools.

amother

Khaki

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 12:07 pm

DrMom wrote:

Actually, the entire holiday and all of its details come straight from paganism, and it is historically a day that was tragic for Yidden.

Yes, Santa was commercialized to look like the jolly man he is now, but that is really just recent.

Listen to this:

https://www.torahanytime.com/#.....=5768

tigerwife

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 3:59 pm

My kids love chanuka and are pretty under-exposed to Xmas, but if they made the comparison, I’d hope they’d still choose chanuka. We dance and sing every night, the morahs send home projects to decorate the home, every dinner becomes a chanuka party with special paper plates and desserts, and even special chanuka fried food. We often get together with family and friends and play chanuka music in the house and car. Seriously, my three year old just threw a tantrum that next chanuka is in such a long time.

I’d ignore that she’s obsessed with Xmas. I wouldn’t worry but I also wouldn’t indulge. The media does make it look so amazing, probably more than real life. And maybe next Chanuka, put some more sparkle into the holiday.

Your daughter sounds adorable. Good luck!

amother

cornflower

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 4:47 pm

She's 4 so I wouldn't take it as a religious crisis. Xmas is just so big and in your face. And it's pretty.

We live in a very multicultural area (not in NYC or another large Jewish community, so it's not always about how modern you are) which in some ways makes it easier because it's not just Christian holidays. I don't say bad things about Xmas, I just say it's not for us, just like our Hindu neighbors celebrate Diwali and not Chanukah. I don't want them to feel bad about wanting Xmas too: I say I understand, but we all have our own holidays and traditions. (The hardest part I have is that some of the Hindus and Muslims do celebrate Xmas because they see it as "American" and not so religious.) And like others I make sure they get lots of good experiences around Jewish holidays. So we don't get such a huge experience at once, the way Xmas is, but we have lots of different ones all through the year.

Also, I do things that are wintery but not Xmas specific. We can have cookies and cocoa and if there's snow we can go and play.

amother

Gray

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 5:02 pm

Omg, I had this with my son, but he was obsessed with Halloween!!! Lasted two full years, he insisted on buying spooky decorations from Dollar Tree, checking every book out of the library, and talked about it non stop, like all October and November! He was four and five those years, he talked about it everywhere, we are yeshivish, he talked about it at school ALL DAY, and we got lots of weird looks! When we went to a Sefarim/Judaica store his three year old sister looked around and asked "Hey! Where's the Haloween decorations?" She literally thought it was a yomtov like Rosh Hahsana and Succos...it was so annoying and uncomfortable and embarrassing, but intuitively my husband and I just knew after gently mentioning that "Haloween is not a Yiddishe yomtov" we should humor him and ignore it until it stopped, and B"H it did! He hasn't been interested for 2 years now : )

amother

Floralwhite

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 5:03 pm

So I’m in a similar situation. My youngest for various reasons I won’t go into here is currently in a secular daycare. She’s 2 years old and has been talking about xmas the last few weeks. At home I’ve been talking about how Xmas is not our holiday and have been emphasizing Chanukah. Every day when I picked her up from daycare we talk about Chanukah and we play lots of Chanukah and dreidel songs and read lots of Jewish and Chanukah stories. So far that has worked. Not sure about 1-2 years from now how we’ll handle it. I’d like to switch to a Jewish daycare, but thats just not happening for at least another year.

hesha

Mon, Jan 20 2020, 8:48 pm

I hope this isn't going to be taken as unsensitive, as I mean it with sensitivity only. But I think this is a big piece of the puzzle. We can't expose our kids to the glamour and bells of the secular world while expecting them not to be enticed by it or want it in their own lives. They're only human. Personally, I refrain from taking my kids to the mall from late Nov till after xmas, because its full of xmas stuff. The library too. If I were you, I would not encourage a relationship with a little girl who celebrates xmas. I'm sure she's a lovely little girl, but she might not be the right friend for your daughter. Its ok to stick to the values that you want to inculcate your child with. It does not make you close minded person, it makes you realistic in terms of which influences our children can handle. You sort of want to have your cake and eat it. You don't want to go through the inconveniences of filtering through what your children are exposed to, but you expect them to be wholly dedicate to only one way. Children don't really work that way. It's ok to verbally express that certain behaviors, practices, lifestyles, are not in sync with Torah and that its not our way. Better yet, don't expose young children to them in the first place. Later on in life, when their foundations are strong and they have a strong sense of who they are, you can expose them more. There is a teaching on Tu Bshvat that I love: Man is compared to a tree in many ways. One of them is that when a seedling is first planted, if the seed is scratched, the entire plant will be affected and not grow well, vs. an adult tree, if one branch is scratched it does not affect the entire tree. So too with children and education. If their Jewish education as young children is held sacred, the tree grows straight and proud, knowing who it is and what it stands for. In adulthood if it is exposed to other ideas, it may make a scratch but does not affect the base of the tree.