Potching lightly on the hand (literal slap on the wrist)

amother

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 6:39 pm

I don't think the studies or discussions on the topic of potching adequately took into account the difference between this and other, more severe forms of corporal punishment. Do the studies about spanking provide any data about giving one slap, not in a sensitive area, and not hard at all, to the extent that it is only a punishment because of the context?

zaftigmom

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 6:46 pm

It's more than just the studies that don't differentiate. It's frustrating how many people equate a light slap on the wrist with spanking a bare bottom, or worse, using a belt.

amother

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 8:23 pm

It's technically corporal punishment, but it really shouldn't be lumped in with any of the other types.

#BestBubby

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 9:31 pm

zaftigmom wrote:

It's more than just the studies that don't differentiate. It's frustrating how many people equate a light slap on the wrist with spanking a bare bottom, or worse, using a belt.

Google "corporal punishment" and you will see it includes biting, strangling, burning, etc.

The "experts" deliberately include abuse together with normal spanking so their studies will show how damaging it is. So the studies are all lies. Of course biting and strangling damages kids. That doesn't mean a normal potch is damaging.

#BestBubby

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 9:35 pm

OP, if you are a normal loving mother raised by normal loving parents, trust your sense.

Of course a slap on the wrist is not abusive. But if you will blindly follow all the "experts"
you will be told a slap on the wrist is abuse. ALL punishment is abuse - even time-out,
losing privileges, etc.

It's just craziness and the Millennial generation raised with all this "gentle parenting" is the
most helpless unprepared adults ever. 37% cannot/will not support them selvees and live with their parents. Many are narcissists because of parental worship.

Last edited by #BestBubby on Tue, Jan 21 2020, 9:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Babyblue

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 9:36 pm

I don't need studies or experts to tell me if spanking is damaging. Common sense says yes. As well as stories from people who were spanked. That's all we need to know.

amother

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 9:54 pm

amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:

I don't need studies or experts to tell me if spanking is damaging. Common sense says yes. As well as stories from people who were spanked. That's all we need to know.

That makes as much sense as saying "I don't need studies or experts to tell me if heat is damaging. Common sense says yes. As well as stories from people who suffered burns. That's all we need to know." and concluding that we shouldn't drink hot drinks or use a heater in the winter.

Tzutzie

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 10:05 pm

zaftigmom wrote:

It's more than just the studies that don't differentiate. It's frustrating how many people equate a light slap on the wrist with spanking a bare bottom, or worse, using a belt.

I personally think spanking bare bottom is a whole lot worse then hitting with a belt. None of these ever crossed my mind to do to my kids. I mean, they aren't animals! (Although, they sometimes behave like it. Lol)

When my kids do something dangerous, they get a potch on their hand.
My 4 yo will say "hehe! It doesnt even hurt much" LOL

every. single. time. And ill repeat "I don't want to hurt you, I want you to understand that this is dangerous and cannot be repeated"

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 10:07 pm

Just by virtue of the phrase "a slap on the wrist" implying that someone got away with something without real punishment would make me think that it can't possibly be viewed as real brutality!

#BestBubby

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 10:11 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Just by virtue of the phrase "a slap on the wrist" implying that someone got away with something without real punishment would make me think that it can't possibly be viewed as real brutality!

Today's experts say ALL punishment is abuse. Yelling (verbal abuse)
Time Out (abandonment), Take away dessert (will cause eating disorder),
No special Mommy Time (with-holding affection as punishment),
scolding (no blaming/no shaming)

and on and on it goes.

Today's generation is the most misbehaved, disrespectful, narcissist, and UNHAPPY
children - not all, but much more than past generations.

Ignore the experts.

amother

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 10:14 pm

Tzutzie wrote:

I mean, they aren't animals! (Although, they sometimes behave like it. Lol)

It would be considered animal cruelty if they were.

amother

Aquamarine

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 10:22 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

You are exaggerating.
The only things all experts agree on are no yelling and no hitting. The rest is subject to debate.
I am a very happy millennial raising bs"d happy healthy children. I am happy because of the self work I did after being raised in a critical home with yelling and hitting.
My millennial husband is happy after doing a lot of self work that needed to be done due to a childhood replete with name calling, yelling and hitting.
I have no relationship with my mother because she never focused on encouraging me or focusing on my positive points- it was always about what I needed to change.

amother

Babyblue

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 10:31 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Only if you insist you must hit your kids. For shame.
Can't understand why a parent would insist on hitting their child when there are so many better ways.

zaftigmom

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 10:33 pm

amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:

I don't need studies or experts to tell me if spanking is damaging. Common sense says yes. As well as stories from people who were spanked. That's all we need to know.

Just to clarify, are you saying that a rare, light potch on the hand in a loving, healthy parent child relationship is damaging? We all agree that beating your children is abusive and awful but is the line really at all or nothing?

#BestBubby

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 10:34 pm

amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:

Only if you insist you must hit your kids. For shame.
Can't understand why a parent would insist on hitting their child when there are so many better ways.

The dismal outcome of the Millennial Generation does not inspire confidence in the
new parenting methods.

amother

Babyblue

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 10:40 pm

https://www.aappublications.or.....10518

AAP policy opposes corporal punishment, draws on recent evidence
Robert D. Sege, M.D., Ph.D., FAAP
November 05, 2018
AAP Policy
Parents and other adult caregivers should use effective discipline strategies for children that do not involve spanking, other forms of corporal punishment or verbal shaming.

The guidance is part of an updated policy statement in which the Academy strengthens its opposition to corporal punishment. The policy Effective Discipline to Raise Healthy Children, from the Council on Child Abuse and Neglect and the Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health, is available at https://doi.org/10.1542/peds.2018-3112 and will be published in the December issue of Pediatrics.

The policy summarizes new evidence published in the 20 years since the release of the 1998 clinical report on effective discipline, which discouraged the use of corporal punishment. Other AAP policies already call for the abolition of corporal punishment in schools and suggest the use of alternatives to corporal punishment to prevent child abuse.

Parents rely on pediatricians for advice on a variety of parenting matters, and most routine health care visits involve a discussion of child behavior and discipline. This policy follows the opinions of the vast majority of U.S. pediatricians, who do not recommend corporal punishment.

The purpose of discipline is to teach children good behavior and support normal child development. Effective discipline does so without the use of corporal punishment or verbal shaming.

In fact, the use of corporal punishment among U.S. parents has been declining during the 21st century. Young adults, regardless of race and ethnicity, are far less likely to endorse the use of corporal punishment than were parents in past generations.

In the updated policy, the AAP defines corporal punishment as the “non-injurious, open handed hitting with the intention of modifying child behavior.” Defined this way, corporal punishment is distinct from child abuse.

Harmful effects, vicious cycle

The change in guidance is brought about by an increasing awareness of the risks of corporal punishment for normal child development. Corporal punishment can bring on a vicious cycle of escalating poor behavior and more severe punishment.

A large national cohort study conducted in the 20 largest U.S. cities noted that children who were spanked more than twice a month were more aggressive at subsequent surveys. Thus, each negative interaction reinforced previous negative interactions as part of a complex negative spiral.

Children who experience repeated use of corporal punishment tend to develop more aggressive behaviors, increased aggression in school, and an increased risk of mental health disorders and cognitive problems. In cases where warm parenting practices occurred alongside corporal punishment, the link between harsh discipline and adolescent conduct disorder and depression remained.

It is of concern that parental reliance on corporal punishment has been associated with physiological changes in children. A small MRI study (n=23) reported reduced prefrontal cortical gray matter volume and performance IQ associated with corporal punishment — even in the absence of other identified trauma. Other studies have noted relationships between physical punishment and chronically high cortisol levels. These physiologic changes have been associated with other adverse childhood experiences and reflect the presence of toxic stress, with lifelong negative health effects.

Parental factors, counseling

While many parents spank their children occasionally, a few parental factors increase the use of corporal punishment. For example, parents who suffer from depression tended to use corporal punishment more frequently. In addition, family economic challenges, mental health problems, intimate partner violence and substance abuse all are associated with increased reliance on corporal punishment. One small report suggested that parents who themselves have a history of trauma are more likely to use corporal punishment than other parents.

Pediatricians can help parents develop effective discipline strategies appropriate to the child’s age, developmental status and other individual factors. When counseling parents, it may be helpful to remind them that even though spanking may transiently interrupt a child’s misbehavior, it is ineffective in the long term and has substantial risk of future problems for the child.

For many parents, general comments about the problems associated with corporal punishment are best embedded as part of in-depth problem-solving of difficult child behavior. Because many parents use corporal punishment as a last resort, adoption of effective discipline strategies is likely to be extremely helpful in reducing corporal punishment. Simply put, parents who manage their children’s behavior well may no longer feel the need to use more violent approaches.

The Academy has a variety of resources concerning discipline issues (see resources). Other sources of information for parents about effective discipline range from local efforts (e.g., family resource centers) to national programs. Formal parenting programs, many of which are evidence-based, are available throughout the country. These may be useful for parents who are struggling with behavior management for their children.

The AAP and individual pediatricians may join with others to reduce and ultimately end the use of corporal punishment in the U.S.

Dr. Sege is a lead author of the policy statement. He was a member of the former AAP Committee on Child Abuse and Neglect.

Resources
Bright Futures
Information for parents on discipline from HealthyChildren.org
Positive parenting tips from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
AAP Connected Kids: Safe, Strong, Secure
AAP News Parent Plus story "Discipline vs. punishment: What works best for children?"
Copyright © 2018 American Academy of Pediatrics

Follow AAP News on Twitter
American Academy of Pediatrics
© 2020 American Academy of Pediatrics

Mommyg8

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 10:43 pm

amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:

Only if you insist you must hit your kids. For shame.
Can't understand why a parent would insist on hitting their child when there are so many better ways.

I'm so curious - what are the better ways? At this point my curiosity is mainly academic, but seriously, I've tried them all.

Locking in a room - I tried it very briefly and stopped because I decided that that became my definition for cruel and unusual punishment. And besides it didn't work. (I should really apologize to my oldest though, I tried it out on him).

Withholding treats - what treats?

Grounding - again, cruel and unusual punishment and doesn't work for younger kids because it's too far ahead. I don't like punishing older kids in any case - when they're old enough to be reasoned with I reason.

Yelling - not much better than hitting IMO.

I am a big believer in using positive rather than negative (a spoonful of honey...) but even so, to never, never punish? Is that really realistic or even desirable?

Mommyg8

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 10:45 pm

Babyblue, did you READ any of the above posts?

allthingsblue

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 10:45 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

How on earth is an age - appropriate time out or grounding considered cruel and unusual punishment?

#BestBubby

Tue, Jan 21 2020, 10:47 pm

amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:

https://www.aappublications.org/news/2018/11/05/discipline110518

AAP policy opposes corporal punishment, draws on recent evidence
Robert D. Sege, M.D., Ph.D., FAAP
November 05, 2018
AAP Policy
Parents and other adult caregivers should use effective discipline strategies for children that do not involve spanking, other forms of corporal punishment or verbal shaming.

The guidance is part of an updated policy statement in which the Academy strengthens its opposition to corporal punishment. The policy Effective Discipline to Raise Healthy Children, from the Council on Child Abuse and Neglect and the Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health, is available at https://doi.org/10.1542/peds.2018-3112 and will be published in the December issue of Pediatrics.

The policy summarizes new evidence published in the 20 years since the release of the 1998 clinical report on effective discipline, which discouraged the use of corporal punishment. Other AAP policies already call for the abolition of corporal punishment in schools and suggest the use of alternatives to corporal punishment to prevent child abuse.

Parents rely on pediatricians for advice on a variety of parenting matters, and most routine health care visits involve a discussion of child behavior and discipline. This policy follows the opinions of the vast majority of U.S. pediatricians, who do not recommend corporal punishment.

The purpose of discipline is to teach children good behavior and support normal child development. Effective discipline does so without the use of corporal punishment or verbal shaming.

In fact, the use of corporal punishment among U.S. parents has been declining during the 21st century. Young adults, regardless of race and ethnicity, are far less likely to endorse the use of corporal punishment than were parents in past generations.

In the updated policy, the AAP defines corporal punishment as the “non-injurious, open handed hitting with the intention of modifying child behavior.” Defined this way, corporal punishment is distinct from child abuse.

Harmful effects, vicious cycle

The change in guidance is brought about by an increasing awareness of the risks of corporal punishment for normal child development. Corporal punishment can bring on a vicious cycle of escalating poor behavior and more severe punishment.

A large national cohort study conducted in the 20 largest U.S. cities noted that children who were spanked more than twice a month were more aggressive at subsequent surveys. Thus, each negative interaction reinforced previous negative interactions as part of a complex negative spiral.

Children who experience repeated use of corporal punishment tend to develop more aggressive behaviors, increased aggression in school, and an increased risk of mental health disorders and cognitive problems. In cases where warm parenting practices occurred alongside corporal punishment, the link between harsh discipline and adolescent conduct disorder and depression remained.

It is of concern that parental reliance on corporal punishment has been associated with physiological changes in children. A small MRI study (n=23) reported reduced prefrontal cortical gray matter volume and performance IQ associated with corporal punishment — even in the absence of other identified trauma. Other studies have noted relationships between physical punishment and chronically high cortisol levels. These physiologic changes have been associated with other adverse childhood experiences and reflect the presence of toxic stress, with lifelong negative health effects.

Parental factors, counseling

While many parents spank their children occasionally, a few parental factors increase the use of corporal punishment. For example, parents who suffer from depression tended to use corporal punishment more frequently. In addition, family economic challenges, mental health problems, intimate partner violence and substance abuse all are associated with increased reliance on corporal punishment. One small report suggested that parents who themselves have a history of trauma are more likely to use corporal punishment than other parents.

Pediatricians can help parents develop effective discipline strategies appropriate to the child’s age, developmental status and other individual factors. When counseling parents, it may be helpful to remind them that even though spanking may transiently interrupt a child’s misbehavior, it is ineffective in the long term and has substantial risk of future problems for the child.

For many parents, general comments about the problems associated with corporal punishment are best embedded as part of in-depth problem-solving of difficult child behavior. Because many parents use corporal punishment as a last resort, adoption of effective discipline strategies is likely to be extremely helpful in reducing corporal punishment. Simply put, parents who manage their children’s behavior well may no longer feel the need to use more violent approaches.

The Academy has a variety of resources concerning discipline issues (see resources). Other sources of information for parents about effective discipline range from local efforts (e.g., family resource centers) to national programs. Formal parenting programs, many of which are evidence-based, are available throughout the country. These may be useful for parents who are struggling with behavior management for their children.

The AAP and individual pediatricians may join with others to reduce and ultimately end the use of corporal punishment in the U.S.

Dr. Sege is a lead author of the policy statement. He was a member of the former AAP Committee on Child Abuse and Neglect.

Resources
Bright Futures
Information for parents on discipline from HealthyChildren.org
Positive parenting tips from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
AAP Connected Kids: Safe, Strong, Secure
AAP News Parent Plus story "Discipline vs. punishment: What works best for children?"
Copyright © 2018 American Academy of Pediatrics

Follow AAP News on Twitter
American Academy of Pediatrics
© 2020 American Academy of Pediatrics

This is another example of FAKE scare-mongering - It states that studies say that children who were spanked more frequently are more aggressive and have lower IQ. It implies that spanking CAUSE your child more aggressive and lower IQ.

No.

A child who is naturally more aggressive and/or lower IQ will be spanked more than children who are naturally less aggressive and/or more intelligent.

The spanking did not CAUSE the aggression or lower iq.