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Motek
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 Wed, Dec 22 2004, 8:48 am
from the same chapter 7 of Tanya - quite straightforward - anything you do that is permissible according to Torah, that is not done for the sake of Heaven, descends into the three impure kelipos 
chocolate cake anyone?
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gryp
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Thu, Dec 23 2004, 9:16 am
to add:
when a person allows himself to take pleasure in permissible things, he acquires the type of yetzer hara that a non-Jew is born with, and will therefore ultimately lust after forbidden things as well.
there is a special emphasis on food here because the food becomes a part of the persons body, and so does the klipah that that particular food was lowered to. this is how a persons body is "coarsened" away from the side of Kedusha.
to be cleansed of this before entering Gan Eden, a neshama must go through Chibut Hakever.
An example of someone who never took pleasure from permissible things: R'Yehudah Hanassi
A way to avoid Chibut Hakever is to recite words of Torah, Tehillim, etc. for 1/6 of the day. (4 hours)
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Motek
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Sun, Jan 02 2005, 3:02 pm
| RG wrote: |
An example of someone who never took pleasure from permissible things: R'Yehudah Hanassi
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Tosfos in Kesubos (104a) quotes the Medrash. It says before a person prays that Torah goes into his system, he should pray that delicacies don't go into his system.
Rabbi Yehudah HaNassi had the finest foods in the winter and in the summer. Without going into details now of what he had, it says that his table didn't lack any goods. The Gemara says that when Rav Yehuda HaNasi died, he lifted up his ten fingers and said:
Ribono Shel Olam (Master of the World), it is known and revealed to you, that I toiled with my ten fingers and I didn't even have the pleasure of my smallest pinkie.
Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi was at such a high spiritual level that despite his extravagant lifestyle he could testify that during his entire lifetime nothing was consumed for his own enjoyment.
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roza
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Sun, Jan 02 2005, 4:56 pm
| Motek wrote: | from the same chapter 7 of Tanya - quite straightforward - anything you do that is permissible according to Torah, that is not done for the sake of Heaven, descends into the three impure kelipos
chocolate cake anyone? |
me, it will give me energy to serve Hashem 
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AweSumThenSum
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Mon, Jan 03 2005, 2:22 pm
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I think it's all about perspective, and if we have the proper thoughts then pleasure is permissible. I.e. a soak in the tub - for some it's indulgence for the sake of indulging, and there's nothing wrong with that per se, but for others it's a way to unwind, and to rejuvenate for the next day so that they can be at their sharpest and be their best mom, wife, employee, employer, etc.... the end results are the same - both people end up relaxed and refreshed, but the perspectives are different.
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Motek
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Wed, Jan 12 2005, 7:37 am
Rabbi Manis Friedman tells the story that he heard from the man in the story (see a version of it in “Doesn’t Anyone Blush Anymore” p. 20-21):
He was a guest of the celebrated Chasid, R’ Mendel Futerfas a'h and when R’ Mendel served him breakfast he was very solicitous, offering him food etc. On their walk later on, R’ Mendel said, “Not everything you see, must you have.”
The man was surprised at the contradiction – on the one hand, R’ Mendel had offered him delicious food, but now he was discouraging him from eating it!
R’ Mendel explained that as a host, he was obligated to go all out and do the best he could for his guest, but from the guest’s part, he didn’t have to partake of everything!
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Motek
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Tue, Feb 08 2005, 8:48 am
the Ha'Yom Yom for Shevat 27 says, "My father [referring to the 5th Lubavitcher Rebbe] wrote in one of his maamarim (chasidic discourses):
Early chasidim resolved in their souls to refrain from anything that is permissible (by Torah law) but for which they felt a desire and urge. This breaks the passion.
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Motek
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Wed, Feb 16 2005, 3:17 pm
| Quote: | the initial preparations for delving into deep intellectual concepts, especially concepts of G-dliness, are 1) a strenuous effort of the body to be rid of one's delight in worldly matters
and 2) a strenuous effort of the soul to stimulate delight in intellectual pursuit in general, and in G-dly matters in particular (Ha'Yom Yom 4 Adar I) |
and a quote from Chovos Ha'Levavos (Duties of the Heart) in the intro. to Shaar Avodas Hashem:
| Quote: | | "Desires for worldly pleasures are unable to dwell in the heart together with a love of G-d." |
what are the chinuch ramifications? we want our children, especially our sons, to delve into deep intellectual concepts when they learn, and to have a love of G-d ...
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Motek
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Fri, Mar 18 2005, 9:41 am
The idol Baal Peor was worshiped in a crude manner, by the worshiper defecating in front of it. In other words, they made the unimportant, important.
Chasidus says that angels also have waste matter. Just as our digestive system extracts nutrients from our food and we excrete the waste, so too the angels sift out the most lofty and pleasurable divine emanations, which they pass to Gan Eden, and allow the waste to fall to earth. This spiritual waste of the angels is the source of physical pleasures in this world.
Therefore, when we pursue physical pleasures, it is a subtle form of Peor worship.
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Tefila
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Fri, Mar 18 2005, 11:17 am
| Quote: | This spiritual waste of the angels is the source of physical pleasures in this world.
Therefore, when we pursue physical pleasures, it is a subtle form of Peor worship. |
Motek Thanks so much for sharing 
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ForeverYoung
Guest
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Fri, Mar 18 2005, 11:27 am
interesting.............
| Quote: | | This spiritual waste of the angels is the source of physical pleasures in this world. |
even the pleasures commanded by H'??
Seudos, nice clothes for shabbos/ yom-tov, simhos
(I'm not talking about people who overdo it)
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Motek
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Fri, Mar 18 2005, 11:33 am
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if something is used for the sake of heaven, it is elevated to kedusha
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ForeverYoung
Guest
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Fri, Mar 18 2005, 11:37 am
thanks, this makes sence!!
(I began to wonder...)
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ForeverYoung
Guest
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Thu, Mar 24 2005, 8:06 pm
've been thinking about it -
angels do not need nourishment!
They do not 'live' - they are created 4 1 specific mission & sease to exist as soon as it's accomplished.
Not only that, this statement impyes that angels spiritual levels had dropped significantly - just look at what people enjoy today!
Any explanations?
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Motek
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Tue, Mar 29 2005, 5:19 am
so glad you asked that FY
here's how my husband explained it:
There is no physical pleasure from the gashmius itself.
What we enjoy is not the physical, which is earth, but the spiritual component within the gashmius.
Spirituality is processed by going from one spiritual world to the next, lower and lower.
an analogy: A teacher who learns a concept, has a brilliant understanding, and has tremendous pleasure in it, knows he can’t communicate it all to his students
He has to keep what he can appreciate and understand, and pass on to his students what they can appreciate and understand.
so too with spirituality which emanates from the divine source - as it passes through the worlds, the spiritual beings that inhabit each world take what they can and pass along the rest
even though the descent from one spiritual world to the next is gradual, the descent from the lowest level of spiritual pleasure to physical pleasure is a huge drop
to illustrate this huge drop we use the analogy of food and waste products, so the pleasure that we get from physical pleasure, relative to the pleasure that angels get from spiritual pleasure, is like the pleasure that a pig gets from slops relative to our pleasure!
a story:
When the mashpia R’ Zalman Moshe took bachurim from Nevel to Leningrad, since they were used to small town living and hadn’t seen a big city, they were very impressed by the tall buildings. Seeing this, R’ Zalman Moshe said, look at what the angels made …
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Anny
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Tue, Mar 29 2005, 5:44 am
| Quote: | | This spiritual waste of the angels is the source of physical pleasures in this world. |
so what you ment is LIKE waste of the angels, not the actual waste
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Motek
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Tue, Mar 29 2005, 5:51 am
no
you seem to have overlooked the word "source"
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Anny
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Tue, Mar 29 2005, 1:19 pm
oh, I see I missed it.
But now I don't get it: is it passed down throguh filters or is it waste?
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Motek
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Tue, Mar 29 2005, 1:30 pm
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I don't quite understand your question. We're talking about spiritual beings, yet being physical, we talk in physical terms. We have to keep reminding ourselves, the angels are spiritual!
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Anny
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Tue, Mar 29 2005, 1:43 pm
| Quote: | | so too with spirituality which emanates from the divine source - as it passes through the worlds, the spiritual beings that inhabit each world take what they can and pass along the rest |
Here you state it is passed down
| Quote: | | This spiritual waste of the angels is the source of physical pleasures in this world. |
Here you state it is a by-product of an angel's difestive system, so to say.
Which one is it?
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