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Bar mitzvah gift - who pays
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Amarante




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 26 2020, 4:43 pm
Personally I wouldn't make my 10 year old child pay for a gift out of savings.

I am also not understanding differentiating between whose Bah Mitzvah it is in terms of his friends or his friend's brother. Going to a party isn't what I would call entitled behavior - demanding to go to an expensive theme park with money for souvenirs is entitled Very Happy For a theme park, for example, I would pay for admission and a basic amount for food but expect my child to purchase souvenirs from savings.
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BetsyTacy




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 26 2020, 5:09 pm
Op, the sefer link on Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/Short-V.....r=8-1

I hope the link works. If not, search for "short vort" without the "a" in the beginning.
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amother




Bisque
 

Post  Sun, Jan 26 2020, 5:20 pm
Why is a 10 year old going to a friends brothers bar mitzvah? That's weird. And he surely doesn't need to gift his friends brother.
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amother




Bisque
 

Post  Sun, Jan 26 2020, 5:21 pm
amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote:
I don’t think it’s nice not to bring a gift, the baalei simcha have to pay for the boy to eat. Not nice.


Baalei simcha that invite guests according to what they have to pay per person, don't invite 10 year old brothers friends.
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Sebastian




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 26 2020, 5:28 pm
OP you can have him pay for circle mag and an occasional chuckie cheeses.
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ra_mom




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Jan 26 2020, 5:54 pm
Sebastian wrote:
OP you can have him pay for circle mag and an occasional chuckie cheeses.

That's bound to be a disaster. The one who pays will hoard the magazine and not allow the other children to read it. If they chip in, they'll constantly argue if one has more money than the other, one can't chip in this time, etc.
At chuckie cheese, it's ok for the kids to pay for treats, but getting in and having a certain amount covered should be coming from the parent, otherwise why take them and dangle this in front of them? Same issues will crop up with jealousy of one child not having anything and not being able to participate in any activities. Older ones will be mad that little ones get covered while they have to come up with their own funds. It breeds an unhealthy relationship with money and with giving.
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sirel




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jan 27 2020, 6:06 am
OP, you sound like a good mother and I think you came up with a good solution.

I hope you don't mind, I'd like to comment on a confusion that I'm feeling through your posts , and if you change that, the other issues become more clear.

It's important to differentiate between being able to afford something (or not) and the question of- who should be paying for this.

If money was no object - would you pay for this friend's brother's gift? or would you think that it's important for your son to feel the responsibility of bringing a gift when he goes to a simcha?

On the one hand, you mentioned in your OP that
Quote:
Maybe it's now time to let him learn how to spend his money.


on the other hand, you mention that you're tight for money
Quote:
My husband and I are just making rent, tuition, etc. In fact there are times when we need to push a bill or two off for a while.


Neither of these two are a problem or wrong - but it is very important to figure out which one it is.
Once you do, you'll have a much clearer picture about how to proceed


for example, if it's about being out of your budget- then you can buy something cheaper, join in with some others in a group gift, or even forgo the gift if it's socially acceptable in that situation.

otoh , if it's about teaching responsibility, then all the money in the world wouldn't change that - and your son should buy the gift or chip in with you.
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amother




Silver
 

Post  Mon, Jan 27 2020, 6:13 am
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
Why is a 10 year old going to a friends brothers bar mitzvah? That's weird. And he surely doesn't need to gift his friends brother.


It's not weird. Depends on your circles, I guess. Very common in our circles.

He would be expected to bring a gift in my circles, but if it's a simple bar mitzvah in a shul basement, then he would bring a simple gift. Of course, this all depends on your circles. You can't ask this type of question on a forum like this. Some will say kids should never bring gifts, others will tell you cover the meal, others will tell you a sefer or $100 --- everything depends on community.

I wouldn't make him pay for this, though. It's a nice thing to go to friends' siblings smachot if he's invited.
What if he goes and decides not to give a gift, because it's his money?
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amother




OP
 

Post  Mon, Jan 27 2020, 7:24 am
sirel wrote:
OP, you sound like a good mother and I think you came up with a good solution.

I hope you don't mind, I'd like to comment on a confusion that I'm feeling through your posts , and if you change that, the other issues become more clear.

It's important to differentiate between being able to afford something (or not) and the question of- who should be paying for this.

If money was no object - would you pay for this friend's brother's gift? or would you think that it's important for your son to feel the responsibility of bringing a gift when he goes to a simcha?

On the one hand, you mentioned in your OP that
Quote:
Maybe it's now time to let him learn how to spend his money.


on the other hand, you mention that you're tight for money
Quote:
My husband and I are just making rent, tuition, etc. In fact there are times when we need to push a bill or two off for a while.


Neither of these two are a problem or wrong - but it is very important to figure out which one it is.
Once you do, you'll have a much clearer picture about how to proceed


for example, if it's about being out of your budget- then you can buy something cheaper, join in with some others in a group gift, or even forgo the gift if it's socially acceptable in that situation.

otoh , if it's about teaching responsibility, then all the money in the world wouldn't change that - and your son should buy the gift or chip in with you.


Hi Sirel yes these are two different things. If money were no object I may still have tried to find a way to include him in the gifting. I want him to see that there are things that are "extras" I think a friends brothers bar mitzvah is something you should appreciate if your parents let you go.

My husband and I talk to him a lot about how he spends his money and we are proud of him. While other kids at camp buy ice cream daily from mom and dad's money. He treats himself only once a week. Etc.

As a general rule I always try to offer him money before he even thinks to ask for it. "Oh you're going on a camp trip. I'd like to give you some money to buy a drink if you're allowed. If you don't spend that money you can keep it."

He doesn't want toys. He shouldn't eat candy. I'm looking for ways to help him learn how money is spent.

Definitely in that moment that I posted I was feeling "OMG I just spent a whole week with this kid and he asked me several times daily what we were going to do for him next and boarding school looks like it may cost just a little bit more that yeshiva anyway..."

So I was thinking. "How can I get him to appreciate this? Feel like this is something special he gets to do?" And I thought asking him to contribute to the gift would be the right thing to do.

As an aside he would always give a gift. He would be horrified to show up to a party empty handed. So I can count on him to do it.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Mon, Jan 27 2020, 7:29 am
Sebastian wrote:
OP you can have him pay for circle mag and an occasional chuckie cheeses.


I find value in the subscription and I want to treat him to things.

If he were going to Chuckie often enough I'd probably do that.
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amother




Puce
 

Post  Mon, Jan 27 2020, 7:57 am
amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote:
I don’t think it’s nice not to bring a gift, the baalei simcha have to pay for the boy to eat. Not nice.

I think a ten year old can come without a gift if the baalei simcha invited him. When making a bar mitzvah, the parents decide how many boys are in their budget to invite and feed. No gift required. This may be different among different cultures.
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amother




Navy
 

Post  Mon, Jan 27 2020, 8:03 am
amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote:
I don’t think it’s nice not to bring a gift, the baalei simcha have to pay for the boy to eat. Not nice.


You invite ppl because you want them to be part of the simcha not for gifts.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Mon, Jan 27 2020, 8:28 am
I teach my son that giving gifts is because we want to extend ourselves to show we share their simcha. It just happens to be that we might have an inflated idea of how much is appropriate.

I know they don't expect it. In a way it's not for them. The giving is for us. It's for us to feel like givers. That's how my husband and I spin it.

That's why I wanted him to contribute. So he can be a giver.
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post  Mon, Jan 27 2020, 8:09 pm
amother [ Bisque ] wrote:
Baalei simcha that invite guests according to what they have to pay per person, don't invite 10 year old brothers friends.


I'll respectfully disagree. All of my kids were invited to some sibling bnai mitzvot. Either because there was some relationship among the kids, or because the parents invite a couple of friends to keep the siblings occupied and happy.

Ob the person who said that classmates usually don't give gifts, at our school, there was a contribution at the beginning of the ba(r)(t) mitzvah year, and each kid got the same gift from "the class."

I'd give a small gift, a gift card for a couple of slices of pizza at the local place, or something like a riddle cube https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00U.....08-20 And no, I would not ask a 10 year old to pay for it.
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