Do u really believe

zaq

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 5:00 pm

6000 minus 5780 equals 220. Well beyond the lifetime of anyone on this forum given current maximum life expectancies. Some folks make it to 100, 112, the rare person makes it to 116 or so. So if not now, maybe in our grandchildren’s day. Sooner would be better, because at the rate at which we are destroying our environment, we won’t need Gog uMagog—we will have destroyed ourselves all under our own power ch”v.

iyar

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 5:02 pm

amother [ Maroon ] wrote:

Well the holocaust survivor was surprised moshiach didn't come during his lifetime which spanned many decades. The women on this thread are saying much more than that. They are saying they truly believe moshiach will arrive any day. I think the posters here are fooling themselves. Nobody here honestly believes that there is a better than 50% chance that moshiach will come in the next week or 2. Yet, almost everyone on this thread claims that's exactly what they believe.

How exactly did you decide this statement is true?

amother

Maroon

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 6:28 pm

iyar wrote:

How exactly did you decide this statement is true?

How could anyone logically expect and believe that moshiach will come next week? If you are 30 years old and there are around 50 weeks per year, you've been alive for around 1500 weeks. And moshiach has come 0/1500 weeks so far. It would be silly to expect him to come this week.

When some something is surprising or an aberration, we talk about it. The weather in Miami was surprisingly cold last week and it was constantly spoken about. Out of the last 100 weeks, how many times did you discuss how surprised you were that moshiach didn't come the previous week? I don't think I ever saw a thread here from anyone discussing in amazement that moshiach hasn't arrived. The reason is because we are all a little more logical than we are pretending to be and since he hasn't come the last few thousand years, I'm not expecting him to arrive by Tuesday.

allthingsblue

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 6:51 pm

amother [ Maroon ] wrote:

Because I know Hashem doesn't work according to logic. Hashem created logic and is above and beyond it.
According to your logic, we shouldn't bother davening for refuos when a miracle is needed because logic dictates the miracle won't occur...

mommy3b2c

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:02 pm

amother [ Maroon ] wrote:

Why not? Are you saying that our system of only 1 wife is better than for example what the Avos deemed appropriate when they all had multiple wives?

Yes. 100%. Having more then one wife was considered a less then ideal solution to childlessness. It was NOT considered something to strive for.

amother

Maroon

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:31 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

but since we are not hashem, our thinking is indeed dictated by logic. Therefore I don't believe moshiach will come this week. Do you?

I think people daven for miracle yeshous because they believe it moves the needle a little. Meaning if c'vs a person has a 10% of being cured, frum people believe that if we daven, do teshuva, maybe a segula, it will move to 20% or 30%.

Either way, would you say you were you surprised moshiach didn't come last week? You know how sometimes the weatherman is predicting a lot of snow overnight and you wake up in the morning and look outside and there's no snow, and you're surprised. Is it the same for you with moshiach? Meaning when you got up this very morning (and the last few thousand) and got out of bed thinking about how surprised you are that moshiach didn't come during the night? Did you honestly EVER have that thought in the morning? If you haven't, then you don't have a right to say that you are truly expecting moshiach.

allthingsblue

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:33 pm

amother [ Maroon ] wrote:

Are we obligated to believe he is coming today? Or to believe he CAN come today, and hope for it? I always thought it was the latter.

amother

Turquoise

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:35 pm

It says that our geulah will have many similarities to the geulah from mitzrayim.
Back then many Jews couldnt listen to Moshes promise of redemption because they had "kotzer ruach," overworked, overtired, and overwhelmed.
Many gedolim have told us The Time is Now! Sometimes it is so tempting to fall into that kotzer ruach impatience from hardships and pain, but I remind myself: I want to be one of those who held steadfast to the belief in the gedolims words! And not from those who gave up hope even if it seems more logical.
So I renew my belief: ani maamin, moshiach is coming any moment, in a blink of an eye. I want to be good and ready!

iyar

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:36 pm

amother [ Maroon ] wrote:

Why does this make sense?
The world has been around for 5,780 years. You figure out how many days. On only one of those days I was born. My neshama needed to show up here and do whatever it needs to do, and the world waited over 5 and a half thousand years for me. For you too as it happens. Everyone shows up at precisely the correct moment. All the important events that ever happened from Kriyas Yam Suf, to Churban Bais Hamikdash, to the Targum Shivim, to Napoleon’s disastrous winter in Russia, the Treaty of Versailles, the discovery of penicillin and JFK’s assassination, happened only once, at exactly the perfect second.
I’m not following your logical (?) explanation for why Mashiach can’t show up this Thursday afternoon. I’m still planning to shop for Shabbos, but if he comes up I’ll figure out what to do with my grocery order.

iyar

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:44 pm

Also amother maroon, I don’t think you understood what I was asking you. You started a statement with, “nobody here honestly believes...”
There is no way you can know with certainty what anyone here believes, certainly not what every single imamother believes.
Which would have to be the case in order for you to determine that nobody here believes something.

amother

Maroon

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 8:04 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

Are we obligated to believe he is coming today? Or to believe he CAN come today, and hope for it? I always thought it was the latter.

Got it. I thought the op was asking if anyone believes moshiach is coming today or this week. It seems she was only asking if we believe it's POSSIBLE he'll come this week. In that case I agree with everyone. I don't expect him to come this week and would be shocked if he did, but it's possible.

salt

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 10:25 pm

In Israel there are movements that encourage learning the halachot of tuma and tahara, korbanot, kohanim that are learning halachot that will apply to them, etc, everything that will apply when there is a beit mikdash, that we are not well versed in these days.

And they are already trying to build the keilim of the beit hamikdash with the right materials and the right measurements.

I think these people really believe the mashiach could come any day, and we should be as ready as possible.

amother

Lime

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 11:43 pm

If any of us really believed that Moshiach could come any minute, none of us would be living in houses, or putting any money into the houses once we owned them, or spending money on endless THINGS that we fill our house with that we'd have to leave behind.

I WANT to believe that Moshiach can come any minute, and if you ask me if it could occur, of course I would agree, but my actions belie my beliefs. So what is true?

JoyInTheMorning

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 2:33 am

Believing that Moshiach could come any day is not the same as believing that he will come in the next 220 years. I worry when I see these predictions. There have been several such predictions over the years, they have proved incorrect, and they have caused terrible sorrow and damage to the Jewish people.

I’m on a phone now and am not good at copying and pasting links, but Google to find Rabbi Israel Chait’s excellent 1992 letter discussing predictions regarding Moshiach.