Basketball player's death

simba

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:54 pm

Cheiny wrote:

Again, what is it that makes him highly accomplished? His skill throwing a ball into a hoop?

Apparently the people mourning his death are impressed with his life. The same way I am impressed by a gadol and they are not.

Different value systems. Not sure why you expect anything else from them.

Last edited by simba on Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

Blessing1

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:55 pm

Kinor Dovid wrote:

The gedolim I know had massive huge funerals bigger than this celebrity.
And our nation cried for real.
Here I heard there was clapping or cheering? I’m not sure why? It’s just a different world where clapping is ok, maybe to honour the guy? But I’m not sure how that represents real grief.
I think it’s so sad that he died because he’s a human being but to me it’s not more sad than if it happened to any average shoemaker or taxi driver.
Sports is just not my world and doesn’t add any special value in my eyes.
It’s a tragedy that happened to a real live person that Is a creation of G-d, so it’s super sad.

In some black communities they celebrate a death by singing and cheering, they have some sort of ritual. They send up these little lanterns to the sky and they march along the streets singing. Maybe that's what they did.

Last edited by Blessing1 on Sun, Jan 26 2020, 10:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

nechamashifra

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 8:03 pm

DallasIma wrote:

From what I am hearing, he was a good man, and his death (and that of his 13-year-old daughter) was a terrible tragedy. It is always sad when a human being passes away.

But all the fuss that's being made, just because he was a star athlete...if ch"v a great rabbi passes away, there usually isn't that much fuss. That thought keeps going around and around in my head.

Just saying.

I don't think there's any extra fuss just because he was a star athlete. I think death is just more of a shock when it's someone you follow. He had millions of followers. I'm not one of them but I can understand the feeling of shock when one minute you're watching someone shoot hoops and the next he's no longer alive. Anyone's death, especially an untimely one, is tragic and sad for those left behind.

Cheiny

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 8:04 pm

DallasIma wrote:

Cheiny, I basically had the same point of view as you when I began this thread. What you said was what I was trying to say, but you said it much better. But I'm also looking at it now from other points of view after reading some of the responses. Anyway, thank you so much for your posts.

Thanks for the kind words. Smile

Cheiny

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 8:05 pm

simba wrote:

I wasn’t questioning the secular world. I was questioning someone here who was lauding his tremendous achievements,

Cheiny

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 8:07 pm

Blessing1 wrote:

When a celebrity dies there's bound to be a fuss about it. I don't get the question.

There’s a difference between making a fuss and showing non stop coverage for 5 hours straight (and still going) to the exclusion of all other news,

zaq wrote:

Why should it? The secular news plays to a wide audience and is going to include items of interest to a wide audience. Observant Jews are a minuscule percentage of the station’s audience unless it’s YWN, which on the whole does not eulogize athletes and movie stars, and many people who would be interested in Torah scholars don’t read secular papers or watch the evening news, anyway.

The deceased’s merit as a human being is irrelevant. What matters is how many people know of this person and will be interested in hearing about him, not how admirable an individual he was. Torah scholars are of interest only to the Torah-observant world. How interested would you be in hearing about the death of, lehavdil, the Archbishop of New York or the Dalai Lama? Why in the world do you think Mrs. Amelia Brown of Jackson Hole, WY would have any interest in the life or death of Rabbi Whomever from Wherever?

The last Lubavitcher Rebbe was an exception because he was a showman and made himself a public figure. But even so, how many people knew of him vs. how many people know of, lehavdil, Derek Jeter or Brad Pitt? Torah Scholars don’t increase newspaper sales. Neither, for that matter do superb schoolteachers and wonderful family doctors. Star athletes, politicians, movie stars, and famous criminals do.

The Lubavitcher Rebbe was a showman? That’s not a good thing to say about a tzaddik.

Last edited by Cheiny on Sun, Jan 26 2020, 8:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

chmom

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 8:18 pm

Cheiny wrote:

Again, what is it that makes him highly accomplished? His skill throwing a ball into a hoop?

No matter what your religion or value system is these athletes are much more than just merely good at shooting hoops.
Professional athletes mostly exhibit an extraordinary amount of determination, are enormously hard working , tirelessly practice their skills and and show unbelievable discipline. I think that counts as being accomplished
All laudable and admirable human traits.
Saying they are good at shooting hoops is about the same as saying our gedolim are good at reading books

jkl

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 8:19 pm

Cheiny wrote:

I wasn’t questioning the secular world. I was questioning someone here who was lauding his tremendous achievements,

He took something as simple as throwing a ball into a hoop & built it up to create a monumental success. It took lots of practice, devotion & effort to get to where he was.

It's a tremendous achievement, regardless of what we believe of the achievement itself. We don't have to honor the achievement, but we can respect the human drive, will & energy he displayed.

Instead of knocking down a man on the day of his death, we can instead try to see what we can learn from the circumstance. We can learn from this is the tremendous capabilities of the human body & spirit. We can project that unto what we know & believe is the ultimate achievement & contemplate what we would be able to accomplish with similar devotion.

rachaelle

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 8:24 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

No matter what religion you are, this was a highly accomplished husband and father who was a hero and role model to many. He died in the prime of his life with his young daughter beside him. It is tragic, period.

Edited.

Last edited by rachaelle on Sun, Jan 26 2020, 9:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

jkl

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 8:28 pm

rachaelle wrote:

Funny how only positive things are being mentioned now. He was also a cheater at best and a rapist at worst. Not saying his premature death isn’t a tragedy, and he definitely was a highly accomplished basketball player.

Why is it funny? A man's life was just tragically cut short. He's a husband, father, brother & son. You think it's the time to bring it all his negative stuff?

Jeanette

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 8:30 pm

zaq wrote:

The last Lubavitcher Rebbe was an exception because he was a showman and made himself a public figure. But even so, how many people knew of him vs. how many people know of, lehavdil, Derek Jeter or Brad Pitt? Torah Scholars don’t increase newspaper sales. Neither, for that matter do superb schoolteachers and wonderful family doctors. Star athletes, politicians, movie stars, and famous criminals do.

Maybe you didn't mean it this way but calling the Rebbe a "showman" who "made himself a public figure" is very disrespectful. If you ever attended a farbrengen or watched a video, it was anything but a "show." The Rebbe simply sat and taught Torah for hours upon hours. When the Rebbetzin passed away and the Rebbe's home was opened to the public for the first time, people were shocked at how simple and bare it was.

The Rebbe became a public figure because of his passion for Torah and love for every Jew. He was committed to using any tool in the arsenal to accomplish his goals, including some that could be perceived as "showmanship." And the term could be applied to some of his shluchim, I will grant you that. The Rebbe conducted himself with the ultimate simplicity and humility his entire life.

Cheiny

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 8:36 pm

chmom wrote:

To even think of comparing an athlete with our gedolim is just really sad.

jkl

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 8:37 pm

rachaelle wrote:

He is being referred to as a hero and a role model. We can say that it is tragic without calling him a role model.

He was that to many people, whether we agree with it or not. I don't get what's wrong with highlighting a man's positives on the day of his tragic death. Leave all the other discussions for another day.

Is it that hard to hold our thoughts and our tongues when a tragedy occurs.

jkl

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 8:44 pm

Cheiny wrote:

To even think of comparing an athlete with our gedolim is just really sad.

One gives his all for gashmius triumph and one gives his all for spiritual triumph. Of course there isn't a comparison, since we know the truth. But why can't that allow us to acknowledge his gashmius triumph, especially on a day of such tragedy? Or at least refrain from any defamatory remarks?

rachaelle

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 8:52 pm

jkl wrote:

I’m uncomfortable with the hero worship of him in the media. Yes he was a role model for his work ethic, tenacity in excelling in his chosen field, and involvement with his children. He is not a role model for being faithful in a relationship. I would like to see a more balanced portrayal.
(On another note, I enjoy when biographies of gedolim include their areas of struggle (and how they overcame those struggles) as well as areas that they were naturally great in. Those accounts are inspiring and give us chizuk to work on ourselves. The book “Holy Woman” comes to mind.)

Cheiny

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 8:53 pm

jkl wrote:

It’s not about a refusal to acknowledge his triumph. It’s about whether it’s really worthy of 5 hours straight of non stop coverage on the news, to the exclusion of all other news.