Basketball player's death

jkl

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 5:55 pm

rachaelle wrote:

I’m uncomfortable with the hero worship of him in the media. Yes he was a role model for his work ethic, tenacity in excelling in his chosen field, and involvement with his children. He is not a role model for being faithful in a relationship. I would like to see a more balanced portrayal.
(On another note, I enjoy when biographies of gedolim include their areas of struggle (and how they overcame those struggles) as well as areas that they were naturally great in. Those accounts are inspiring and give us chizuk to work on ourselves. The book “Holy Woman” comes to mind.)

You can have all that when his body is cold & buried, & his widow & children have had a chance to grieve. Why the need to have it at this very moment, when their pain is so raw that their hearts are literally ripped open?

I think it's more than appropriate to say that concern for the loved ones and the dead comes well before your need for a balanced portrayal. As the Torah so eloquently tells us - There's a time for everything.

allthingsblue

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 5:57 pm

rachaelle wrote:

FYI gedolim books rarely include their areas of struggle. People don't like to talk ill of the dead.

I don't understand why anyone here would think the media should subscribe to their standards. We all know that the heroes and heroines of the general public are not usually people of squeaky clean moral character. This man was a talented person. We don't have to fawn over him like the rest of the world does, but why does anyone feel the need to mock (not you, rachaelle, but some other posters) or denigrate or belittle the fact that many idolized him? Live and let live.

rachaelle

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 6:03 pm

jkl wrote:

That’s why I posted my thoughts on this website, which I assume his family members won’t read. Had he not have been referred to as a hero and role model (implying overall) I would not have posted the negative. I apologize if I offended anyone.

jkl

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 6:03 pm

Cheiny wrote:

It’s not about a refusal to acknowledge his triumph. It’s about whether it’s really worthy of 5 hours straight of non stop coverage on the news, to the exclusion of all other news.

Gashmius triumph is very highly ranked in the secular world, I don't think that's news to any of us. So why even the question if it's worthy of non stop news coverage?. I beg to ask the question - why would you think they'd go about this otherwise?

Mevater

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 6:04 pm

DallasIma wrote:

From what I am hearing, he was a good man, and his death (and that of his 13-year-old daughter) was a terrible tragedy. It is always sad when a human being passes away.

But all the fuss that's being made, just because he was a star athlete...if ch"v a great rabbi passes away, there usually isn't that much fuss. That thought keeps going around and around in my head.

Just saying.

No way.

Do you remember what the streets of BP looked like when lhavdil the Skulener Rebbe passed away, with every single person in the crowd, teary-eyed?

rachaelle

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 6:07 pm

allthingsblue wrote:

You’re right. I haven’t seen many such biographies. But if an area of struggle is mentioned as having been difficult initially for a gadol, and then shown as to how the gadol grew in that area or middah, then it is showing greatness. Not speaking ill. I wouldn’t suggest that the areas that were not improved upon be mentioned.

singleagain

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 6:08 pm

rachaelle wrote:

This thread is visible to the public.

jkl

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 6:09 pm

rachaelle wrote:

With the internet, you never know who gets hold of what. And it may not be his family members that come across this page, it may be others in the secular world who do. And it's in very bad taste to defame a man on a day of his tragic death.

And I apologize, I didn't mean to come across this harsh. I didn't want this thread to spiral into a bashing of his character. Let the dead and his family have their moment to grieve and cry & let us be respectful of secular world regardless of our beliefs.

shoshanim999

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 6:15 pm

rachaelle wrote:

He is being referred to as a hero and a role model. We can say that it is tragic without calling him a role model.

In many ways he WAS a role model. True, he had an affair over 10 years ago. But.....he was an amazing player who entertained millions. Watching the news now it seems he was gracious, (the woman reporter said that he was one of the first to text her congratulations when she had a baby a few years ago, even though he was a superstar athlete), he always had a smile on his face, was articulate, spoke several languages, in retirement he became the head coach of his daughters basketball team. The point is that so many athletes have big heads and have all sorts of legal problems stemming from domestic abuse, to drunk driving, drugs, to constantly hanging around with women. He was a guy that was often seen sitting in the front row at the ballgame with his daughter. Bottom line is that he seemed like he was a good guy who had a skill that entertained millions.

shoshanim999

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 6:20 pm

ra_mom wrote:

I'll never forget the rape case against him.

What won't you forget??? It was a classic he said/she said case and there was no evidence he raped her as you are incarnadining now. He was a world famous mega superstar athlete who could have is pick of many many women. It certainly doesn't prove he didn't rape her but there was no evidence that he did which is why the case was dropped. In all likelihood the woman was looking for a payday. He has never been accused of anything similar in the years since.

what do you mean "you'll never forget the rape case"???

Cheiny

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:48 pm

jkl wrote:

Because frankly there are, and have been, much more newsworthy world events that never got 5 hours straight non stop coverage.

Cheiny

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:50 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Ah, if only people here were willing to give the same benefit of the doubt to justice kavanaugh. Hi

WhatFor

Sun, Jan 26 2020, 7:54 pm

ra_mom wrote:

I'll never forget the rape case against him.

Same. Two things can be true: the people in his life are mourning their loss of him and the women he victimized (and other victims) can be going through who knows what seeing all kinds of leaders and celebrities glorifying him. If you read the allegations against him, it was not classic "he said she said". It was a hotel worker r@ped who immediately went to the hospital and reported him to the police, and him making a statement later that he understands why she would've thought it was r@pe even though he "thought" it was consensual. Medical reports also confirmed her bruising and markings were consistent with r@pe. He ended up paying her off in a civil suit. I understand he did a lot of good things after that for many people and was a role model.

I do sometimes struggle with understanding how certain people get a pass, and some don't. Perhaps the answer is that everyone would be better off if they had another chance to be a better person and no one should live the rest of their life defined by the worst thing they once did. I don't know.

I can't begin to imagine what his wife and family are going through right now losing their husband/father and daughter/sister. Same for the survivors of the other family who lost both parents and a sister. This is awful all around.