Aliyah pros and cons?

amother

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 9:48 am

For those who have made Aliyah/lived in Israel what are the pros and cons of making Aliyah? PLEASE don't hold back,!!I know it's a beautiful opportunity, and all that, but want real, raw Info. We don't speak Hebrew fluintly, how big of a hardship will that be? Anything we should do to prep? Is it ideal when kids are older, younger? What would the age cut off be for our children when we move, in terms of adapting, language, etc. Best time of year to move? Are there English library's.

Do u have a personal pros and cons list?

I lived in Israel for a year (not including seminary) but was in a communal dorm setting, will all Americans, from 19-22yo, and I feel that it will be so different with a family.

I miss Israel a lot. My husband and I got engaged there, and our goal is to someday move back. We haven't talked about it in a while, for a while I thought I changed my mind. Maybe it's hormones from being pregnant at the moment, but recently I've wanted to go back soooo bad!!! I dream about it. But I'm so hesitant at the same time. We have 2 kids, and a third on the way, oldest is 5&1/2.
Are plan in the beginning was to have a savings before making Aliyah, which we don't have yet. So may not be in the immediate future. But the other post about US products people want to be brought to Israel, got me thinking...

TIA!

blessedflower

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 9:57 am

Moving is the best decision we ever made b''h. It's been a year and life is great here. I also don't really talk Hebrew but I live in beit shemesh and there is a lot of English here. All doctors speak English more or less. For school aged kids it's important to know Hebrew before they come.
I personally have a hard time with the health/hygiene awareness/style here. But I was very spoiled back home in this part.

amother

Copper

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 10:10 am

For a different perspective this is something I always wanted to do and didn’t. It’s a huge sad regret in my life. Do it now when your kids are still little. None of the big decisions in life are easy. Getting married, having babies, starting a career, buying a house - all come with worries. Don’t let the worries hold you back from something if it can give you and your family a better life.

amother

Mustard

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 10:25 am

Pros:
Super easy to be Jewish. Easier even than in big frum cities in America. Almost everything is kosher. Shuls everywhere. Kids speak fluent Hebrew which makes Torah study a lot easier.

It's a mitzva.

Tuition is reasonable. Health care and public transportation are also fairly cheap, and fairly efficient.

People tend to be friendly.

Beaches.

It's exciting to be a part of Israel.

Cons:
You will always be an immigrant. Always. In 80 years, people will hear your accent and know that you are an immigrant. Some parts of Israeli culture will never feel normal to you.

People can be blunt and will say what they think, even if it's rude.

Housing is expensive. Electronics are expensive. Cars are very expensive.

You will need to be confident and assertive in order to speak up even when you know you're making grammar mistakes, and keep your career going strong in a new country, and push back when people are being pushy and rude with you.

amother

Mauve

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 10:31 am

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

The only con I can think of is all my family is in the US near each other

Same here. We have to budget for trips back to see family. That is the only con. I wish my family would be here.
The thread about stuff you can't get shouldn't be a make it or break it. We have everything we need here. Yes, I ask ppl to bring me things and I order from Amazon once a week now, but if all that ended, I would still stay here. Those are just extras. Moving here is the best thing I ever did.

OP, 5-6 years old is a great age if you can make aliyah happen this summer I think all your kids would be fine. My kids were ages 2-8 when we made aliyah and they are doing amazing. They are 14-20 now, army, sherut, etc. 100% acclimated. They would never move back to America for anything.
We live in a very Anglo city, we have tons of friends who barely speak Hebrew and they are fine. As long as you try and go to ulpan and make an effort to speak Hebrew you will be OK.

There are English libraries and lots of neighborhoods have book swaps.

What are your careers? Can you both work in Israel?

Most people move in the summer. It just makes the most sense with kids in school.

You need to come with savings. You and DH may not work for a while. There are a lot of expenses setting up a new household. You will need all new appliances and probably furniture.
If you plan it and think it out well, you will have a successful aliyah.

amother

Mustard

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 10:33 am

It's ideal to come when kids are younger. The younger they are, the more quickly they pick up the language and culture. But there's no cut-off age. The only issue would be coming with older kids who don't want to come. Once you get to age 10-12 or so it's risky - but I do know people who came at 10 and 12 and 14, etc, who weren't against coming and who settled in just fine.

To prepare: save money and work on your Hebrew. You don't need a ton of savings, but you can't assume you'll find work right away, either. And it'll be easier if you can take a few weeks or months to focus on settling in and learning Hebrew.

Libraries and bookstores in major cities tend to have English sections. Even better, make friends with English speakers with good book collections. Find used bookstores with decent selections. And when all else fails, there's Kindle and Book Depository.

How hard it is to not speak fluent Hebrew really depends on where exactly you live and what your career is. Living in Be'er Sheva without fluent Hebrew would be much much harder than living in Jerusalem without fluent Hebrew. If you want to be an office manager there will be very few positions for English speakers who don't know Hebrew, if you're looking for a job as a programmer it will barely matter at all. In general the better your Hebrew the easier it will be.

notshanarishona

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 10:47 am

Speaking Hebrew is a big thing. It will most likely impact your employment opportunities. If you are serious about moving - start working ok your Hebrew yesterday .
As far as day to day interactions, there are plenty of American neighborhoods with many English speakers but not speaking Hebrew is definitely a hardship and will affect your medical care , getting your house set up, even just getting directions on a bus. If you only speak English you will be limited .

amother

Sapphire

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 11:04 am

Only Real Con: Missing my family (I can do without all the food that I miss only available in the us)

Pro: The whole country is centered on Jewish Life which is a big for us because we try to keep our life focused on Avodas Hashem, there is no keeping up with Jones's, kids are happier with less, the concept of all chareidi cities, a huge mitzvah to live here (people who don't should at least make a calculation if it would ever make sense because some people go through life never thinking about it at all), mikomim kidoshim (if I said that right), Kotel, so much Torah here, beautiful scenery, easy transportation system-you can totally get by without a car, tuition and healthcare don't break the bank. I could probably think of hundreds more.

I think my life is more relaxed and peaceful than it was in US even though It is still very exciting between simchas, chaggim, pregnancy, friends, etc there is always something that we are busy with (in a good way bh) and I never felt happier in my life. All in all, husband, kids and I love living here (though kids were born here so they don't know anything else)

Now don't get me wrong, "eretz yisroel niknas biyissurim" and I have had my share of hard things in life including infertility parnassah issues, death of a parent at young age and settling in after marriage was also very hard but our attitude is that we are so lucky that we can live here and Hashem sends everyone their package no matter where they are.

So any hardship/yissurim you would have with moving, adjusting, settling, parnassah, shalom bayis and missing family and everything here (including Misrad Hapnim, Bitach Leumi and annoying paperwork Smile

is just yissurim (out of love) from Hashem which everyone has in their life.

Obviously moving here is not for everyone but there are definitely lot of pros!!!
Hatzlachah!!

amother

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 11:17 am

OP here.
Thanks for all the insight! There's no way we can make Aliyah in the immediate future, as I said we're not even close to having savings right now. We lived abroad for the first few years of our marriage (obviously not Israel) and working time in the states has not been long and not enough of an income vs bills to make a savings. Obviously were hoping that changes soon So we can start a savings.

Currently I'm a drop off babysitter, (aka babysit from home) but I'm not sure if there is much of a market for that in Israel, or how much I could reasonably charge, and therefore if it's worth it?
As for my husband he is a software developer/programmer. As well as a degree in theoretical physics. So I hope that's not gonna be too hard if he's not fluent in Hebrew??

I'm not too worried about finding food, as I'm good at adapting and scouting out that kind of stuff, and I'm great at budgeting and being creative with cheap alternatives!!

While I'm not naturally a pushy person, or in anyway 'israeli in mannerism' I hope I could adapt, as I did when I lived there for the year in the past...

I don't live near MY side of the family, and I'm not sure it will make a difference anyway since my relationship is Rocky anyhow and don't see them too often as it is. We are close with my husband's side of the family (both physically and emotionally) but I have a feeling if we moved, for sure one of the the other siblings and family would move with us, so I'm not too worried about that either as of now...

Obviously I'd have to discuss it at length with my husband, and like I said it will take some time anyway b4 we r able to.

Keep the pros and cons coming!!!!!

rzab

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 11:17 am

We have been here 5 years now and it was the best decision we made.
My oldest started first grade when we got here and I think that was a great age. Like others said, there is no deadline but the older they get there are more challenges.

I was looking at what others wrote as cons. So it's true, some of those are things I may complain about on a regular day, but the pros outweigh those cons so much more and would not be a reason to go back.

I'm happy to talk more if you want to pm me

Rappel

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 11:19 am

First: Aliyah does not have to be forever. You can make Aliyah, and if you see your family is not integrating, then you can make yeridah. I'm not encouraging it, but it sounds like you're very tentatively exploring it, and I want you to know that all your doors are open.

Second: the first 3-5 years of Aliyah for anyone are very, very hard. Culture shock is real. Language barrier is real. It's disheartening and aggravating to constantly not know what's going on until you learn the ropes.

The most important factor in a successful Aliyah, IMHO, is having a family/like family who can support you closely through the transition. These are people who will constantly be calling you up to check if you're okay, and will know how to spot if things are not. These are people whom you can visit on a Friday afternoon with a load of dirty laundry, and they'll just pull out some extra beds and toss some more chicken into the soup. People whom can go to offices with you, or explain your electric bill to you, or just sit with a cup of tea while you vent. Having such people to lean on is huge, and will make all the difference.

Savings - absolutely. Minimum 6 months +surprises, but ideally a year's worth. You don't want to ever have the pressure over your head of "how will I feed my family."

A mixed Anglo-israeli community can be a great place to start. You can fall back on English when you need to speak like an adult to someone, but your family will slowly integrate into the Israeli culture around you. A challenge for kids growing up in mostly Anglo communities is that they can have tremendous trouble integrating into Israel as adults - almost like second generation olim.

The pros? It's our homeland. It's our family. It's our G-d given destiny. If I knew that enemies were invading Israel right now, I would not move an inch, because I'm firmly convinced that we are living life in the best possible way we could live it. It's not just worth it to me; it's the only way I could live. If you feel that too, then come on home, and please come over for Shabbat Smile

Rappel

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 11:23 am

notshanarishona wrote:

Did you know Hebrew before you got here? Did any of us?

We all put ourselves in Hebrew-speaking volunteer work, university degrees, and jobs, and broke our brains until we learned it. You don't need Hebrew before you make Aliyah. You just need to learn it to fully transplant here, want to connect to your kids/grandkids.

southernbubby

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 11:25 am

I am currently in EY but didn't make Aliyah. If you press *2800 and ask for English, you can get details for trains and buses. We are staying in a rental on Nachal Luz (RBS alef) and most people speak English there and the shiurim are in English in the shul. People have been super helpful with directions, carrying bags, etc. Kids do develop a lot of self-sufficiency at an early age.
Try to find an Anglo neighborhood so you can have a lot of friends. It is expensive to live in frum neighborhoods so you balance it out by living with less.

grace413

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 11:33 am

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

Pros:

Cons:
You will always be an immigrant. Always. In 80 years, people will hear your accent and know that you are an immigrant. Some parts of Israeli culture will never feel normal to you.

.

True, but so what? Many Israelis are immigrants. And they are leading successful productive lives. Your kids will be Israeli Israelis and you will have the satisfaction of having done the hard work of aliyah for them.

It's not always easy here but I thank Hashem every day that we are here.

amother

Mauve

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 6:09 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Are there $store type stores (1 sheck?), Or like 5 and under kinda stuff? How expensive is food, and other Evey day items? Like, can u get shampoo and deoderant and detergents for under 5 sheck?

There are shekel stores but they do not sell toiletries.
Your food expenses will probably be the same as in the US. In season vegetables are cheaper and way more delicious but that will be balanced out by things which are more expensive. We feel like we spend the same amount. Then again, my kids eat a lot of American cereal and I dont keep a strict food budget.
Deodorant is more expensive than in the states and Amazon won't ship aerosol.

amother

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 6:18 pm

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

Thanks!

2gether

Mon, Jan 27 2020, 11:47 pm

Cons: family
forever being an immigrant

Your jobs are very practical in Israel; the second silicon valley, the best paying job in israel, need to have a command of english anyway etc.,
babysitters are always in demand you can earn between 3-6 thousand shekal/mo., unless you open a mishpachton (goverment regulated babysitting) in which case you can earn 8-10.
Both jobs need basic hebrew for communication but not for the job itself

My tips:
move as soon as possible, don't move once they turn 10 ish
do ulpan
move to the right community, but try in the first place to go out of jslm, because once you live there it would be hard to leave and the rents are exorbitant, places like beit shemesh etc.