S/O of S/O of babies

amother

Wed, Jan 29 2020, 8:16 pm

I'm trying to understand, really not judging anyone I'm just trying to understand.

Why is it that when someone posts an explanation as to why they chose to have a big family despite the hardships it entails, do others feel the need to discount it by saying that either their children must be neglected or they must not actually have it that hard? Why can't we accept that everyone has challenges and everyone makes the life decisions they make because they meant them? Why must it be that when someone makes a choice that you didn't make, you need to find a way to push them down? Maybe they do actually have hard pregnancies and work many hours and don't have any nearby family to help but they still have a large family and the appropriate response is "Wow, may Hashem give you the strength to raise them into wonderful adults."
Why do posters more often than not make it seem like the choice they made is the only legitimate choice and anyone who feels otherwise (especially when it means having more children) is wrong and a terrible parent?

mig100

Wed, Jan 29 2020, 8:29 pm

ora_43 wrote:

Some people just can't grasp the concept of others being able to do something they can't. Like, if I realized that I can't handle having 10 kids, it must mean nobody can,

This is the answer. Personally I don't know if I can handle 15 kids. That doesn't mean that there are not others who can

Last edited by mig100 on Thu, Jan 30 2020, 12:30 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Salmon

Wed, Jan 29 2020, 8:43 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Because we all know that somethings got to give.

amother

Babyblue

Wed, Jan 29 2020, 9:12 pm

Because I have seen so many large dysfunctional families and so few that are healthy . Both from personal experience - growing up as 1/12 and as a teacher seeing again and again neglected children from large families , coming in without food or supplies and not dressed right , unresponsive parents , it just seems to be the majority in my experience. I have never met someone who walks around calling herself dysfunctional.

amother

Blue

Wed, Jan 29 2020, 9:21 pm

I wish I could've had a larger family. Bh I'm grateful for what I have.
Having said that, I do have to say that when someone says they're sick in bed for months but have a baby ever year, something doesn't sound right.
I have HG pregnancies. It's impossible to describe what they're like. Let just say they render a woman absolutely dysfunctional.
Yes I have cleaning help and cooking help and my husband pitches in. But it definitely takes a toll on the woman, on the husband and on the children.
Being dysfunctional for half a year every year, just doesn't make sense to me. I'm sorry. What about the kids? What about venishmartem meod? My Dr says my body needs time to heal from all the vitamin deficiency and vomiting.
So when someone says they work full time, with a bunch of little kids and babies every year, while immobile in bed for weeks or months on end, it doesn't seem healthy at all and almost seems delusional.

Other than that. I know women with large families and they are amazing and their kids are all loved and well taken care of. (None of them have difficult pregnancies btw).

Kudos to them and I wish them and everyone else health koyach and nachas!

amother

Wheat

Wed, Jan 29 2020, 9:21 pm

amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:

The level of dysfunction was such that you think the children in question would have been better off not being born?

I'm not going to win a prize for organized on-top-of-it mom. That's not my strength. But I am a loving, caring mother who values each of her children and recognizes them as individuals. I drop a lot of balls, forget to send supplies, and don't send perfectly balanced packed lunches. I'm not super-responsive to teachers because I have social anxiety that makes those interactions extremely difficult for me, and because I've learned that many of the things teachers feel should be my priority are actually not all that important. (I don't mind if my child gets a B, really, as long as they are happy in class. I don't think homework is the be-all-and-end-all of school, and think it should be the child's responsibility, not the mother's.)

I still don't think I'd be doing my kids any favors by not having them.

Oh, and I'm a better mother now as I hit the high single digits as I was when I had just one or two.

amother

Royalblue

Wed, Jan 29 2020, 9:26 pm

Excuse you! What qualifies as dysfunctional- the fact that they are missing a notebook? Or they didn’t eat breakfast cuz the kid- Doesn’t like breakfast?? I am asking this more as a teacher, judging children from large families based upon what you deem functional and dysfunctional. If as a child you personally felt emotionally and physically neglected you have a valid point, but as a teacher or an outsider it is condescending and patronizing to decide that a family is dysfunctional because the kids are missing supplies or come to school hungry.

As a teacher myself, there are many many students that come from functional families that are missing supplies and don’t eat breakfast!

I agree with OP!

Have you ever noticed that it is only orthodox pple that look down condescendingly at those with large families. Your typical average “[gentile]” thinks it is beautiful and a blessing.

amother

Babyblue

Wed, Jan 29 2020, 9:33 pm

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

I have one student who has never brought in supplies the whole year - not even a pencil . When I spoke to his mother she said he is old enough to take care of buying supplies himself and it's his responsibility (he is 11 years old ). I have another student who brings in lunch maybe once a week and is always begging others for food- never has snacks. He is always dressed in holey clothes and it's very clear they don't have money. I have a student who has gotten ssuspended without me ever talking to the parents because they don't answer my calls . All 3 of these come from family size in the teens .
Yes - I am sure my personal experience of being neglected and being given too much responsibility from a young age has given me perspective but I see it so often again and again .
No one is super women . When a mother is pregnant and has a newborn and father is working full time kids don't raise themselves

amother

Babyblue

Wed, Jan 29 2020, 9:35 pm

amother [ Wheat ] wrote:

If your social anxiety is so bad that you can't communicate with your kids teachers (who are with them 8 hours a day) then you need to get yourself asap . Whether therapy or meds . That is not a way to live.

amother

Wheat

Wed, Jan 29 2020, 9:37 pm

amother [ Babyblue ] wrote:

Thanks for your concern. My children each have at least 2 teachers, and most have more, who are with them far less than 8 hours a day. And I do communicate with them, but I am not the super-responsive parent who returns all phone calls or texts instantly.

amother

Wed, Jan 29 2020, 9:43 pm

I've also been thinking that maybe the modern expectations of motherhood have played in role in creating this idea. I think that because society places so much weight on home cooked meals, extra curriculars, structured activities at home, tons of He assistance etc that we don't think children can grow up healthy, happy and loved even though they play together while mommy talks to them while laying on the couch and their tatty makes Mac and cheese with cucumber sticks for supper. We're equating the household functioning with the kids emotional stability even though, with the proper outlook and done in a smart way, the love and devotion that the children grow up with can outweigh the messy house and frozen pizza.
I'm underqualified to have an opinion really, since I come from a small family and was always really sad about it and I have only been married s couple years and have 2 kids under 2. But I want a big family and I don't have easy pregnancies and I'm not a talented home maker and I'm a greatly imperfect person. So I'm trying to get to the core of how to raise a healthy big family when you aren't superwoman.

amother

Lemon

Wed, Jan 29 2020, 9:45 pm

You can have really large families without having one every year. Many ppl I know are married and fertile from app. 19-46. They often have first 2 or 3 18 months apart, but then it moves on to 2.5-3 years apart.
They are not sick in bed 6 months a year.
I agree that 1/2 sick in bed of each year sounds like too much.
FYI, I have what is considered a small family, and, um, I don't see that my house functions a lot better, nor that my kids look more put together than my friend's who has more than double mine. I'm not going to eulogize her, but she's doing more than OK, BH.

yiddishmom

Wed, Jan 29 2020, 9:48 pm

Oh please! I'm sure some of our teachers thought my family was dysfunctional.

My mother wasn't on top of our breakfast, we weren't always on time to school, those of us who didn't/ don't feel like doing homework - so be it. My parents don't make sure the HW gets done. If I child needed assistance/ tutoring, that's a different thing, and yes, my parents arranged for that.

Yes, sometimes you'd walk in to our house at 11pm and the little children were still running around.

No, our home wasn't always cleaned. And yes, we children didn't always appreciate the mess.

But do you really think that the mess is what lasts with you forever? My husband jokes that it's the best thing. Now all thirteen of us will make sure that our homes are much cleaner (the solution isn't having less children).

Yes, we all pitched in a lot. You know what? I think it has much more to do with the attitude than with the actual amount of work a child does. We were/ are all happy to help. My parents generat love, happiness, simchas hachaim and more, hence we don't feel gypped or anything.

I love all my siblings even though I had to spend many nights bathing them, putting them to sleep, folding their laundry, preparing their snacks and lunches and thus had to forgo nights out with my friends.

Speak to any on of my siblings: we all think our family is the most amazing family with all of our "dyfunctionalities", and so do the in-law children who come from smaller families. All the in-law children love spending time at my parents house more than they enjoy going to their own families. We laugh through life and joke about the "dysfunctionalities".

Who said that childhood must be only fun, parties, friends, trips, etc.? Why can a child not help out at home? Even if it's considered a lot.

Guess what? I think those children that helped out more make much better adults/ spouses/ parents. They have learnt a lot in life: caring, sharing, forgiveness, patience, responsibility among many more.

amother

Wed, Jan 29 2020, 9:58 pm

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

Re-read babyblue's post. Kids with torn clothing/feeling the need to beg for snacks are at risk for social ostracism and anxiety. Etc. Same with kids who are dirty or smell etc.
Don't kid yourself, it exists.

Is that a symptom of a large family or an overwhelmed and stressed out mom? Don't you see that in public school too where the average family is 2 kids?

amother

Pumpkin

Wed, Jan 29 2020, 9:59 pm

I grew up in large family and babysat for a few large families. Yes, there was a lot of dysfunction that I was privy too as I was their usual babysitter. In my home growing uo, the dysfunction was bec my dad couldn't afford the basics and was so stressed working around the clock while mom was busy with the infants and Toddlers....

And, to the posters here who said "it's the kids job to do....not the mothers job"...well, yes, but it's the parents job to show the kids what's important and teach them by reinforcing the ....

And, basically, I dont know many functional large families except ones that did have a lot of support ....mostly financial such as one woman who had her parents supporting her while she had a baby almost every year and her dh learned in kollel and......another family had a decent salary for a large family such that the mom told me "we earn well and spend well" ....yes, these moms are more chilled"" but they did have a lot of supports/money and....that others dont have

So from my personal experience, I dont think it's possible to manage a large family unless there is a lot of support emotionally, financially,....etc...and I dont believe its possible for these moms of large families to "do it all" and work full time with no money for cleaning help...etc and other extras that others cant afford and affects kids/adults..

amother

Jetblack

Wed, Jan 29 2020, 10:04 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Is that a symptom of a large family or an overwhelmed and stressed out mom? Don't you see that in public school too where the average family is 2 kids?

I actually work in a public school. The few families like this are either very poor, or the parents are the completely socially oblivious type (like the kid who was complaining to his mom other kids didn't want to sit next to him because they said he smelled, but it didn't occur to her to make sure he bathed regularly and had clean clothes, and the guidance counselor was dropping very heavy hints). It's really the minority. Ime.