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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

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amother

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 1:53 am

Im just in so much pain now , phisicly and emotionally. I just need advice how u would deal were you in my shoes??

My dc wanted to go to a friend for shabbos . It was hard for me to let since I needed dc home but I decided to let dc go. We discussed that I will come pick dc up 8:30 after shabbos . Comes after shabbos , dc calls me that have a melava malka so wants to stay longer . I said ok , I will come pick u up by 11 . (It wasnt an official melava malka for yashiva.... it was just a few friends. If was a yashiva thing I wouldnt have a choice and would have to let until 1 .) This wasnt the case here. Comes 11 I call to say that should get ready since I will be there like after 11 . Dc started saying that it wont end before 1 but since I didnt feel comfortable dc should take a taxi so late, I decided I wanna pick up around after 11, I felt it was late anyways and dc was away with freinds over shabbos, so had share.
It was a 20 minute drive , me and dh went we had the younger kids in car . I call up dc to let know I'll be there in a few minutes . I kept calling, no answer . We drove down to where the melava malka took place . We saw our child outside with 2 friends so seemed like party was over too . I waved , dc saw me but we parked further down since my dc never like when we stop right next to friends so we respect this. I did tell him before where I will be waiting . So I call dc to say im here , dc says ma 5 minutes more . Ok , we waited 5 10 15 20 minutes. No show . I call dc a couple of times , no answer . I circle around again me and dh see him clearly with 2 friends smhoozing. My dh didnt stop him since my dh has this policy that he doesnt stop dc with friends . Dc doesnt like so dh respects it. So we went back to the parking where we waited before , I tried calling dc . No answer . And I knew dc is there outside @ friends house because we saw him . I did say dh should stop my dc @ his friends it wouldve been 2bad , he let us wait , he knows were waiting , he doesnt follow along so consequence would be that we needed to stop @ friend but dh said he not gna do it . So we waited and waited and waited . It got later and later and later . Dc doesnt pick up phone , it was almost an hour and no show . Until we decided to leave . I was very upset, so was my husband . Dc plain ignored us!!!
I came home , no phone call from dc , it was really frustrating. Untill we both decided we going to sleep and so we did .
Afew minutes later , my husband already slept and while I was almost asleep dc knocks on my bedroom door . He needs money for taxi . I said tatty is sleeping and I dont have he was yelling and almost waking up everybody else in the house , so I told dc to take out money from my coat pocket but I will need back the money .
He is most of the time a very irresponsible child . Im having sooo much pain right now.. I was being good let go dc should have a good time shabbos . I gave in to stay longer , me and dh went out of the way to pick him up.
I forgot to mention earlier that after me and dh left .. when we arrived home he called up my husband why we left . That was an hour later , it was after we tried many times to reach him, and he ignored us . My husband told dc we going to sleep already, so dc knew , and he still came to my bedroom to wake us up and making noise . I really did not wanna pay for taxi , I came to pick dc up . Dc was loosing out. Now dc asking for money for taxi. I told dc can take money since was late @ night. Everyone sleeping , I couldnt afford he should wake up everyone.
I know that is real unacceptable and inappropriate behavior. I feel my widths end right now. I feel drained and sooo mad . I wanna sleep it over and see how I can approach my dc tomorrow. Right now I feel so angry. I would love to hear how others would deal in this case . Im really not an expert in chinich and I feel like im going to loose it , but I wanna deal it right . Right now I dont feel how I can see this child tomorrow, and I dont know what dc thinks . He did something really not behaving. And the yelling @ my bedroom door while I was trying to sleep. Dc yelled he will let the taxi driver into the house if I dont pay . I didnt want this to get worse so I just said take money from my pocket . Im just so lost . Im surprised. Shocked on my dc . He is usually irresponsible, I can never trust him but didn know this far that dc sees parents and know we came to pick up and knew where to meet us and never showed up , did not pick up phone and let us wait an hour without any responsibility . Im crying . Im in pain. I have tzar .. he is a very yiras shumayim type of kid erlich . I wish he deals and have kibid av too , not just the learning and davening . I want him to be mentclich as well. Im glad I have where to cry out my heart and maybe someone can help me out how to approach this ?

piece

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 2:06 am

I feel your pain. I had fam member used to do the same thing. very painful. I really dont have an answer, but I can suggest that you & your husband have to be on same page & absolutely stick to your word/plan. both of you shld give over a plan to your son what will happen from now on that will work for YOU & stick by it no matter what otherwise it will just escalate!
hazlocha!

strawberry cola

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 2:11 am

You and your husband need to sit him down at a calm moment and set up some rules. Make it clear that if he does not abide by them (curfew/pick-up times etc) he will not be permitted to go places.
I would also ask him (again, in a calm moment, you should NOT lose your cool, be careful) if he realized that it was chutzpah that he kept you waiting that long while shmoozing with his friends. He should apologize.
Clear rules, don't get emotional.

mom2mysouls

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 2:45 am

Agreed with above. For the future I would set boundaries, "you can stay at friend, but at this and this time, you have to be home". Give him the responsibility of a time. If he doesnt stick to it, he loses his chance to go the next time.

How old is he? I think the taxi money should be his obigation as well.

It has to be all said calmly, but firmly.

camp123

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 3:07 am

I think you should consult a chinuch expert. Imo someone who behaves like that has no yiras shamyim. How old is he?
He somehow needs to be taught empathy and to consider other people's feelings and time, including his parents.

amother

Pumpkin

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 3:11 am

I feel your pain - your son's behavior was out of line and blatantly disrespectful.
It hurts. It's scary. And it's hard to know what to do. So - HUGS (lots of them).
Having said that - and I say this with experience - you need to step back from your pain and look at your son's behavior as calmly as possible. Dust off all your negative feelings, and do what you want your son to do - let yourself be governed by your mind, not the negativity in your heart.
Teenagers do silly things. It's part of growing up. Very often they'll ignore their seichel and follow their impulses - especially when friends, peer pressure and self-determination/status are involved.
It is your job, as the parent, to GENTLY, LOVINGLY, yet ASSERTIVELY teach him right from wrong, and do whatever you can to motivate him to choose right. Beyond that - his behavior beyond your control.
How can you do that?
DON'T make this about you.
Your son loves you, but he's in the process of trying to figure out who he is. He's learning how to strike it out alone in the world, and is testing limits, tasting the heady flavor of independence, and trying to see what happens when he does his own thing.
That doesn't make what he did okay. But it helps to step into his shoes and see what might be making him tick.
Clearly, he has to learn that he crossed limits and that there will be consequences.
You need to sit down with him and explain exactly what he did wrong.

[As an aside: A good way to handle this meeting, IMHO, is to decided that either you OR your husband presents a stricter tone of voice, and the other - usually, the mother - talks as gently as possibly. DH and I call this the "good cop/bad copy" strategy. It helps defuse the tension, so that the child who did wrong feels less threatened and less defensive. This way, he actually LISTENS to what you're saying and takes it on board.]

What can you say?
Let him present his side of things and then show him how his judgement was impaired.
Describe the distress his behavior caused you - in a calm, "explanatory" voice (not accusatory!!).
You were made to wait. To worry. To lose sleep. To feel unappreciated for letting him go for shabbos to begin with.
Point out that what he did showed a gross lack of appreciation and respect and say that even though you and DH love him very much, there HAS to be a consequence - not as punishment, because you understand that he's still young and everyone makes mistakes - but because he needs to realize the gravity of what he did. You can't get away with behavior like that and not pay a price. That's LIFE.

What should the consequence be? This depends on who your son is. How you think he'll take everything you've just said. Will he understand? Or will this be something he's going to rally against?
If you think he'll take it maturely (now that he's heard your side and is away from his friends' sphere of influence) you can perhaps discuss the matter of consequences with him. Make it a give and take. Present him with a few options and let him choose.
If he'll react harshly and find your approach hard to digest then don't give him that privilege. Discuss what it will be with DH befre the meeting and present him with the facts.
Whatever you do - you can show flexibility regarding what the consequence will be, but you have to follow through!
He has to see that you're serious and not afraid of him. You are the parents. You are the adults. You are in charge. And you are doing this BECAUSE YOU LOVE HIM.
BECAUSE YOU WANT HIM TO GROW TO BE A MENSCH.
Above all - work on interacting with him (not just today, but always) with as much love and calm in your heart as possible.
And the wonderful thing about this approach, is that it's self-perpetuating.
When your children feel the fairness, serenity and maturity in your voice, they cooperate much more (even if it's a process and won't happen overnight) and it becomes easier and easier to truly see them and interact with them with love in your heart.

And of course - a kapitel Tehillim here and there will be the magic ingredient that will help everything go smoothly.

Hang in there... We all do stupid things as we grow up.
A few years down the road, you'll be able to look back and laugh (just don't bring it up in front of his kallah :-) ).

amother

Yellow

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 3:29 am

I would try not to overreact.

In this situation, the breakdown in communication seems to be the primary problem, and he probably ignored you because he felt you were being unfair in making him come home so early, when his friends were all allowed to stay.

I do think you need to sit down and calmly ask what his cheshbon was, and explain your side of the story. Then you need to discuss what he could have done going forward, and make it clear that he will be paying for his own taxi due to his errors in judgment.

Perhaps you can work out some compromise in situations such as this, where his friends are all still out and he wants to stay with them. Make it clear that you do expect communication regardless, and will try to discuss exceptions like an adult as opposed to being overly rigid.

I don't think it's as terrible as it seems, and I don't think you should project anything about his future based on it. You'll both learn from this royal mess-up and do better in the future.

ora_43

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 3:56 am

1. amother-pumpkin has good advice

2. if I'm understanding your post right, your younger kids were left waiting for almost an hour, that is, until around midnight, rather than you or your dh just walking up to your kid and saying "kid, we've been waiting for you for 30 minutes. Get in the car right now or we're leaving without you"?

Because he "doesn't like" when you talk to him in front of his friends??

That sounds very over the top, and very unfair to them. Why prioritize his comfort over theirs to that extent? Or for that matter, over your own?

Your words are telling him that he needs to be respectful, but your behavior is telling him that he can go ahead and do whatever the heck he wants, because you'd rather that the whole family suffer than that he get a little upset.

3. In general, you need to stop being afraid of him. He might scream and wake everyone up? OK. So he'll do that once, and then realize it doesn't work. Instead, you gave in to his demands, and now he knows that screaming at night = getting what he wants.

For all his terrible behavior, look at the results - he got to stay out as late as he wanted, and take a cab home at your expense.

You didn't say how old he is (13? 15?) but I'm assuming old enough that in general, you want parenting to be more about conversations than punishment. But. You still need enough punishment to make bad behavior not worth it. There absolutely has to be a consequence that more than makes up for everything he "won," so that he sees this kind of behavior isn't rewarded.

sequoia

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 4:32 am

Why are you afraid of your son?

Teenagers don’t like it when parents talk to them in front of their friends. That doesn’t mean never ever do it.

I don’t understand why your family’s life revolves around him.

What good is his learning and davening?

sequoia

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 4:45 am

Also, you wrote, “he is a very yiras shumayim type of kid, erlich. I wish he deals and have kibid av too, not just the learning and davening. I want him to be mentclich as well.”

Which makes sense because we want to raise good people.

So, does his yeshiva emphasize these qualities? Character? Kindness?

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 5:56 am

Does his chutzpah indicate a deeper issue? Was he drinking with friends? Did THAT perhaps fuel his chutzpah last night?
I would consult with a professional to figure out whether there is more going on than you realize. This behavior is unacceptable and you parents cannot be intimidated by him. You need to set boundaries, unless you're concerned that he will disregard your boundaries, in which case only a professional can guide you. I also would not leave money around for him to take.
This is very painful. Lots of hugs.

amother

Copper

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 6:06 am

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

Yes, what is he doing with his friends outside late at night? Drinking? Drugs? How old is he?

amother

Royalblue

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 6:28 am

I wouldn’t jump to conclusions about drugs/drinking. But I do think that you are not setting the tone in your house of who is in charge. You are the parent and for as long as he doesn’t go independent you set the boundaries! If he doesn’t want you to speak to him in front of friends, than too bad, he shouldn’t be standing with friends when he isn’t supposed to.
Your asking me what I would have done? I would have gotten out of the car and said “ hey dc times up”. And I would stand there until he comes. No more five more minutes. I can’t believe you actually paid for his taxi, I would have said, who asked you to take a taxi? I was waiting for a whole hour (!). To me it sounds like he is manipulating your kindness and you should be tougher.

#BestBubby

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 6:33 am

Your acting like your son's slave.

I would definitely ground him for awhile.

In future, before letting him go out tell him the curfew before, and if he breaks it - he is grounded - no going out for x amount of time.

and DC should definitely pay for the taxi.

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 6:48 am

amother [ Royalblue ] wrote:

Have you raised teenagers? Recently?
And what's if said son who is obviously defiant does NOT come after your "times up".
OP's son had no intentions of coming when his parents wanted him to. He's defying authority. Is this a one-time situation or is this part of a bigger picture? Did OP check out this friend? Were the parents home for Shabbos? Or was this a whole Shabbos of partying?
If OP would not have paid for the taxi, would son have taken money from the Pushkas?
I believe this behavior is not an isolated incident. And therefore I suggest OP consults with a professional.

ora_43

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 6:56 am

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

Have you raised teenagers? Recently?

That's kinda harsh. I don't know what part of "I wouldn't assume drugs" makes you think she must not know from teenagers. Plenty of teenagers misbehave without being on drugs.

Now, if she'd said "couldn't possibly be drugs," then I'd get this response.

Quote:

And what's if said son who is obviously defiant does NOT come after your "times up".

Then you need a different approach.

I definitely don't think professional help is a bad thing. But it seems odd to jump right to that without even trying boundaries. Especially since OP describes her son as irresponsible but generally erlich (as opposed to, say, "never listens to us" or "violent" or... etc), and says this behavior was surprising to her.

amother

Fuchsia

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 7:08 am

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:
Have you raised teenagers? Recently?

That's kinda harsh. I don't know what part of "I wouldn't assume drugs" makes you think she must not know from teenagers. Plenty of teenagers misbehave without being on drugs.

Firstly, I asked about drinking, not about drugs. I didn't mention drugs (though it was in the back of my mind).
Secondly, telling a defiant teenager "times up" and expecting him to come, is not always realistic. If he's trying to impress his friends with his defiance, he will not come when asked. So then what will the parent do? Stand and wait for how long?
Also my question was in response to "I wouldn't pay for the taxi". What would you have done? It's quite obvious that OP didn't either want to pay for the taxi. What choice did she have when her son was acting out?
Thus, I do believe the son was under some influence, especially if his behavior is not usual for him.

amother

Royalblue

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 7:10 am

amother [ Fuchsia ] wrote:

I based my answer on the info that op provided. She said otherwise he is a good kid who learns, Davens and has yiras shamayim. If a kid overall is a good kid and he is just struggling with respecting his parents, than yes, I stand by my word that a 14, 15 year old needs to be put in his place. I don’t think op mentions the age of her dc but I’m pretty sure we’re not talking about an 18 year old.

amother

Amber

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 7:22 am

I would have gone up to the son and said to get in the car. Problem solved.

Unfortunately OP, you sound like a teenager yourself. This isn't about you. It is about your son. A mature person doesn't cry like this. You know where your son was. You were in visual contact with him. You need to start acting more mature, so your son respects you.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Feb 02 2020, 7:59 am

First of all, the main problem is not with your son. The problem is with your husband, and the fact that he lets your son get away with all of this. You two MUST get together and agree on the rules, and then STICK TO THEM. Your son will do as much as you let him do, and then push a little more. That's what teenagers do.

I think it's nice that you want to respect your son's independence and image in front of his friends. The thought is in the right place, but right now he is not earning that privilege. If he is going to act like a child, he should be treated like a child. When he can be respectful and show responsibility, then he can have more space, but not now. You need to explain to him very clearly what is going wrong, and what he needs to do in order to have privileges like that.

You can't take any of this personally. At this age it is very hard for kids to think outside of themselves, and to think from one minute to the next. They are rarely doing it on purpose, it's that their brains are just not mature enough to process everything. That's why teens are so sweet one minute, and total jerks the next. They can't hold two feelings at the same time. It's not about you, it's about his level of maturity.

The only way things will improve, is if you reset the rules, and give choices. "Son, you can stay out late, but I need to get your younger siblings into bed. You will have to spend the night, because we are not spending money on a taxi. If you want a ride home, you have 5 minutes to say goodbye to your friends and get in the car." and "You have another choice. If you are not in the car in 5 minutes, your father is going to come and get you, and we will be parking out front. It's up to you."

This way, you have control over what the choices are, and then he has control over what he chooses. You both get to feel like you "win", when you both feel like choices were given and honored. That's how you create cooperation.

There is only one way that this will work. You and DH have to stick to it Every. Single. Time. If you don't, your son will end up confused, and go right back to his old behavior, because that is what he knows. You will only be hurting him if you give in. You will only be hurting yourselves.

You can do this. Be strong, and know that you are setting boundaries for your child with love. If you want, print this out and show it to DH, and then talk it over. You need his total commitment if this is going to work.

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