Starting a seminary - what's involved?

amother

Wed, Feb 05 2020, 1:40 pm

watergirl wrote:

You keep mentioning using someone's house/shul. I don't know if you realize that there are real risks here for the home owner or shul. If the home/shul is not zoned for a school, you have a real risk here. Even a small one classroom school - you really have to be above board. There is a lot of red tape here. Think of what a small in-home daycare has to go through to open legally - you would have to do those things also for the most part. That costs a lot of money. I think you are under the assumption that this would be far more simple than it really is.

Maybe start with Touro/Landers or Chofetz Chaim. They already have a presence in KGH and a name recognized internationally. Can you approach them and see what you can do as a partner? They both have the buildings and the legal issues hammered out. Also the name. Maybe they would welcome you under their umbrella?

I'm sure there would be paperwork, and no, I don't have a good handle on how much. That was part of why I was posting here! With so many women on this site, I figured there would probably be a few administrators in the bunch who've dealt with these things before. I'm familiar with the amount of paperwork required for a home based preschool, but had assumed it would be considerably less since the program participants would not be minors (which means no health department regulations, no fingerprinting, no licensing for the teachers, etc.)

The option of possibly starting a program has only been brewing for the past day or so, so obviously to say that this is early days is a rather large understatement. Right now I'm trying to get a handle on what's possible and what would be involved to pull this off. I hadn't planned to do this, but my daughter needs a program, there aren't any locally, and well, you know what they say - necessity is the mother of invention.

Re at home option - I figured it would be the cheapest option, though obviously the person would still have to be paid. If I had a big enough place I would just have it by me and call it a day, but I seem to have forgotten to win the lottery this week LOL

It could be that another mom in the program would be willing to trade housing classes by her for free/reduced tuition, or that someone who's been looking to start her own business would be willing to go in for part of the profits.

Re a classroom in a school - I think this is the least likely to happen. They'd probably charge the most rent and have the greatest concerns about the security of their current students. The only exception would be if one of the local high schools wanted to go along with this, but then I assume that if they wanted to do it under their umbrella, they'd want to have control over it so as not to negatively impact their reputation.

Re a shul - This may land up being the more practical option. A number of the shuls in Queens run adult ed classes. Parsha, Halacha, Chumash, etc. One thought I had was that I might be able to get a shul to build onto their existing adult ed program. They're already running classes, so whatever permits/licenses they need they probably already have. And some of their existing teachers may be open to taking on an extra class or two per week, which means we would have a leg up on staffing that we might not have otherwise.

flowers12345

Wed, Feb 05 2020, 1:47 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

This is an excellent idea! I would look into this.

Elfrida

Wed, Feb 05 2020, 2:01 pm

You'll probably need an administrative director and an educational director, with you available to do the leg work. I don't think setting up and running a seminary is something you can pick up as you go along.

What did you mean by something for post Israel girls? I don't understand why someone who has just come back from seminary in Israel would register for another seminary programme unless it involved either career training or college credits. Unless you mean evening shiurim for girls who are working or studying elsewhere?

Add in some kind of catering for lunch to the myriad details that would have to be taken care of. And cleaning.

amother

Wed, Feb 05 2020, 2:21 pm

Elfrida wrote:

What did you mean by something for post Israel girls? I don't understand why someone who has just come back from seminary in Israel would register for another seminary programme unless it involved either career training or college credits. Unless you mean evening shiurim for girls who are working or studying elsewhere?

For post Israel, I was thinking maybe a half day option (assuming the whole thing didn't have to start out as part time to begin with). I know most girls who come back from Israel either work or go to college/training programs, but some of them do try to take extra shiurim or go to evening classes.

But no, that wasn't my focus, as I agree that those girls have already done seminary. I just meant that if there are girls coming back from Israel who do want to take some classes, this could be a local way for them to do that.

amother

Wed, Feb 05 2020, 2:29 pm

amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:

Instead of being surprised that there is no seminary in Queens, perhaps you need to ask why no seminary in Queens has been successful.

It's an interesting question. I think for the most part it hasn't been tried in recent years, or maybe there wasn't an impression that there was a demand. There was one years ago (Leah Lisker's program), but other than that a lot of local girls either go to Israel or Brooklyn. The ones who don't want to do either just take whatever the local colleges (Queens and Queensborough - both CUNYs) have through Hillel, Chabad, and other Jewish groups on campus.

I don't think a Queens one would ever turn into a large program, but I would hope that there is enough interest to keep a small program going.

amother

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 9:16 am

Thank you everyone for all your posts and information/comments.

For those of you who have dealt with seminaries in the past, as parents, teachers, students, etc., what would have mattered to you most? I realize that this will differ from person to person and community to community, but was there anything on your list that was a "must have"?

Also - would you have felt that you needed a "name" involved? Meaning would a Rav or Rebbetzin's name need to be attached to a program to get it off the ground?

What about new vs established programs? I'm sure a lot of people would prefer established ones for elementary/high school, but how do people feel about new programs for adult education programs?

Also - someone suggested to me that I think of this idea as being along the lines of homeschooling (though with more kids than just my own). How does that change the parameters of what I'd need, and would anyone actually go for something like that??? I can't imagine too many parents/girls going for something phrased that way, but I can hear how the person I was speaking to came to that conclusion. Thoughts?

Notsobusy

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 9:23 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thanks for the idea - I hadn't thought of that. I will check with my daughter's high school and see if they can whisper in a few ears at the seminary level and see what happens. I have to assume though, that even if they are willing to consider the possibility, they would probably also have trouble getting it going for the Fall. It may be that they can pull it off for a future group of kids. Certainly worth a few emails/phone calls - thanks!

An established school will probably have an easier time than you to get it going for the fall. But I don't know all the logistics, so I have no idea if it can work.

I wonder if they would be open to having classes two days a week in Queens. So the girls go into Brooklyn only twice a week, and the other two days they can hire local teachers. Again, I have no idea if it's possible, but it's a thought I just had.

Elfrida

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 9:38 am

I don't think that seminary falls into quite the same category as adult education.

A major difference is that it needs to be a carefully structured program, designed to help the girls grow and give them a foundation for their future adult lives, as they move through the transition from school to being independent adults. Adult education is normally a selection of shiurim, and you go to whatever you want. Seminary needs to be a lot more inclusive.

You need someone to be the principal. Not necessarily famous, but not unheard of, either. A name that prospective students/families are familiar with will give them more confidence in an unknown program and the quality of the education provided.

A seminary based around someone's dining g room table does sound like home schooling. I think a lot of girls going to seminary are looking for a wider experience than that.

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 9:40 am

At the seminary level you need WOW teachers and that will cost you a lot.

Great teachers is what will give you the star factor that the girls will want to come. Convenience and credits will solidify that.

And then for the sem to be successful, you got to keep up a strong Wow teacher lineup. Otherwise girls will stop coming. You r competing with old prestigious institutions and or modern fancy programs.

Old institutions have their name to fall back on, when they’re program ain’t so great. New institutions have the super inspirational teachers, the cool locations...

I would suggest you find a big money sponsor who gets to name the sem after his grandma. Got to talk to a fundraiser about that.

goodmorning

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 9:55 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

or that someone who's been looking to start her own business would be willing to go in for part of the profits.

There is a huge "ich" factor in viewing seminaries as businesses that generate profits (when one would logically expect them to be non-profit institutions), but even if that is your business model, I would not count on your seminary generating profits for quite a few years (and after that, maybe, but who knows?). The first few years, when you need to figure out a location, teachers, administrators, and pay for all of those while not having a guaranteed stream of tuition funds, you are much more likely to lose money than earn money. I think most business people would view it as a pretty risk venture.

amother

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 10:11 am

goodmorning wrote:

Definitely not viewing this as a money making venture, I'd personally be happy for the first year to start off breaking even and anything after that is a bracha.

I do realize that if I got anyone else to go in with me who didn't have a daughter looking for a program they might be looking at it from the money angle, so that's where that piece came in.

amother

Aubergine

Thu, Feb 06 2020, 3:02 pm

What is your vision for the seminary?

Your motivating factor seems to be providing your daughter and maybe some of her friends with a local program and save them travelling. Apart from location, what do they need from a seminary?

Is this seminary to consist of a few daily shiurim so they can say they have 'done seminary'? You can bring in random educators for that, and have it in someone's house. A bit of chumash, a bit of hashkafa/mussar, and a bit of halacha. The girls would probably develop a fairly close comradery. What else would they get out of it?

Do you want to establish a serious new program that may have a future? That needs planning, experienced staff, a budget, a hashkafic attitude (can be broad, but needs to be there), and a vision of what you hope to be able to give the girl during her year. It would take more planning, but the girls would gain immeasurably more from a well planned program.

But since this is being planned around your daughters needs, see what they are and develop a vision of the seminary. Then adjust it to meet reality. The educational vision of what the seminary stands for has to come before the picayune details of where to host it.