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PSA: I come from "illegals" and your words can hurt
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amother




OP
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:14 am
I'm not posting on the current thread in the politics section because I will be mentioning personal information and want to stay anonymous. This is a completely true story but obviously you'll have to take my word for it. Mods, feel free to move this thread if you can without outing me.

My grandfather was a child during the Holocaust. His family was hidden in a bunker in Poland but only he and his mother survived. They had distant cousins who managed to get a visa for a family of 4 but only the father and another child had survived. They joined forces and pretended to be a nuclear family to emigrate to Canada. My grandfather entered Canada as a teenager under false pretenses with a fake name and a fake birthdate. All his life he was afraid to change his name back to the original and he couldn't even remember his original birthdate because celebrating birthdays wasn't really done back in the day. He only had a vague idea of when he became bar mitzvah in the bunker. My grandfather started with nothing and was instrumental in building the Jewish community in Toronto. Some of you would recognize the name if I mentioned it.

My father is the son of this illegal immigrant and he came to the US legally and first received a green card and eventually received citizenship when I was in high school. I remember him talking about the ceremony.

My mother was born here in the States but her family has its own stories. Her father was able to emigrate from Europe on the strength of an acceptance letter to a university that later withdrew its acceptance because there was no money to pay for higher education. My grandfather came over here and worked really hard and was able to bring the rest of his family over with the help of the man who had sponsored him. There was a huge seudas hodaya a few years ago to celebrate the 50th anniversary of that event and it was amazing to see the generations of frum Jews who are able to live life in the freedom of the US due to the actions of two men.

All of you talking about "illegals" make it sound so simple, but each person you so callously dismiss with your labels has a story and that story is usually one of pain and hardship. It's not exactly easy to sneak into the US and the people who do so are desperate. I understand that we can't have an open door policy and I know that we need some way to vet people so that we're not letting in terrorists or drug dealers, but I'm not sure what the best policy is. I do think that we should have compassion for refugees and asylum seekers and we should remember our own immigrant pasts. No, not every Jew who came to the US came here legally and we shouldn't be slamming the door shut behind us.

Just my 2 cents.

[I moved the thread to the politics section without outing you]
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healthymom1




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:23 am
You're talking about a .00001% situation. Where he got fake ID and lied about who he was and lived a different life and then became a citizen.

The illegals we dont want in America are the ones costing Billions of dollars that just cross the border. They have a high crime rate. Not all are killers and some I'm sure rise to the top of a company or whatever. But you cannot compare your gfathers story to the majority of what illegals cost and bring to this country.


Last edited by healthymom1 on Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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small bean




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:25 am
Im not judging your family but when he came to america he did so legally.

Anyone who wants to become a legal citizen is not what anyone is talking about. No one has issues with those people.

There are millions of people in america who are here illegally, live off the government and will never go through the process. That is a problem. That is not what you're describing. I dont see how you can be hurt as no one is talking about people like your past.
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aliavi




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:27 am
Nebach. Such spin. Your father came and applied for and received a green card. If there was something amiss he wouldn’t have been granted citizenship.

This has no application to the current behaviors like an anchor baby that people are objecting to.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:30 am
I have Hispanic friends who are 4th generation Americans, and their relatives came here legally through the whole paperwork process.

They get all kinds of abusive words thrown at them. They are extremely angry about people who illegally come in, give all Hispanics a bad name, and take benefits. My friends and their families worked themselves extremely hard to get higher education and jobs that would make them self sufficient, even in the face of blatant racism and bigotry.

I figure if anyone has a right to be unhappy about illegal aliens, they do.
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Blessing1




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:30 am
When we talk about illegals we talk about those that cross the border illegally and are living off my taxes. They somehow get Medicaid and food stamps and drivers license. They're not interested in a job and are often criminals. This enrages me and many others that are considered middle class but are struggling.
The government should take care of citizens before providing for illegals.


Last edited by Blessing1 on Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:34 am
healthymom1 wrote:
You're talking about a .00001% situation. Where he got fake ID and lied about who he was and lived a different life

The illegals we dont want in America are the ones costing Billions of dollars that just cross the border. They have a high crime rate. Not all are killers and some I'm sure rise to the top of a company or whatever. But you cannot compare your gfathers story to the majority of what illegals cost and bring to this country.


Her point is that every person has a story.

In any case, there are no actual statistics on the crime rate among illegal aliens. Currently, the statistics lump together documented and undocumented to show a LOWER crime rate than among native-born Americans.

The Cato Institute -- yes, that Cato Institute, as in the Koch Brothers -- published a paper in 2019 estimating that illegal immigrant incarceration rates are about half those of native-born Americans in 2017. In the same year, legal immigrant incarceration rates are then again half those of illegal immigrants.

Quote:
The second strand of research from Cato looks at criminal conviction rates by immigration status in the state of Texas. Unlike every other state, Texas keeps track of the immigration statuses of convicted criminals and the crimes that they committed. Texas is a wonderful state to study because it borders Mexico, has a large illegal immigrant population, is a politically conservative state governed by Republicans, had no jurisdictions that limited its cooperation with federal immigration enforcement in 2015, and it has a law and order reputation for strictly enforcing criminal laws. If anything, Texas is more serious about enforcing laws against illegal immigrant criminals than other states. But even here, illegal immigrant conviction rates are about half those of native-born Americans – without any controls for age, education, ethnicity, or any other characteristic. The illegal immigrant conviction rates for homicide, larceny, and relations crimes are also below those of native-born Americans. The criminal conviction rates for legal immigrants are the lowest of all.


There may well be reasons to control immigration. But high crime rates don't appear to be among them.
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sushilover




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:35 am
I have family members who immigrated from gamg ridden countries, and I think it's important to speak the truth, enforce our country's laws, and not to mistake reflexive compassion with virtue.
Having a sympathetic story doesn't change the facts.

*edited because anonymous posting was disabled and I cannot reveal some private information about my background


Last edited by sushilover on Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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small bean




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:36 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
I have Hispanic friends who are 4th generation Americans, and their relatives came here legally through the whole paperwork process.

They get all kinds of abusive words thrown at them. They are extremely angry about people who illegally come in, give all Hispanics a bad name, and take benefits. My friends and their families worked themselves extremely hard to get higher education and jobs that would make them self sufficient, even in the face of blatant racism and bigotry.

I figure if anyone has a right to be unhappy about illegal aliens, they do.


This is true legal Hispanics have it the worst. And there are a lot of them. Legal hispanics are a great asset to America. It is a pity that so many of them come illegally and ruin it for the others.
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:36 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
I have Hispanic friends who are 4th generation Americans, and their relatives came here legally through the whole paperwork process.

They get all kinds of abusive words thrown at them. They are extremely angry about people who illegally come in, give all Hispanics a bad name, and take benefits. My friends and their families worked themselves extremely hard to get higher education and jobs that would make them self sufficient, even in the face of blatant racism and bigotry.

I figure if anyone has a right to be unhappy about illegal aliens, they do.


Why would they be angry at people who try to come to the US to get a better life, rather than at racists who discriminate against them?
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:38 am
small bean wrote:
This is true legal Hispanics have it the worst. And there are a lot of them. Legal hispanics are a great asset to America. It is a pity that so many of them come illegally and ruin it for the others.


I wonder if my great-grandparents, all of whom were in the US by 1910, felt that way about Jews coming from Europe in the 1930s.
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chestnut




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:40 am
OP, your grandfather and great grandmother came to Canada under different names? Did they stay under those names the rest if the lives?
Your mother's father came here to university after the war? (Judging by 50 y celebration)
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Blessing1




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:40 am
SixOfWands wrote:
Why would they be angry at people who try to come to the US to get a better life, rather than at racists who discriminate against them?


Because the illegals are causing the discrimination.
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small bean




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:41 am
Regarding crime if you look at the study they say it is hard to measure and there is no accurate numbers.

What we do know is 28% of federal arrests happen to undocumented and 25% of drug arrests. We dont know the percentage of undocumented people vs documented
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small bean




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:43 am
SixOfWands wrote:
I wonder if my great-grandparents, all of whom were in the US by 1910, felt that way about Jews coming from Europe in the 1930s.


We don't know Jews did have a bad name at the time for living in poverty and not pulling their weight. I am going to ask my grandmother who's parents were born here.
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:46 am
Blessing1 wrote:
Because the illegals are causing the discrimination.


Well, that's certainly victim blaming.

I hear it vis a vis antisemitism all the time. "Look at what those whatever Jews do ...." Inexcusable. And inexcusable here too.

Racism is always inexcusable.
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Blessing1




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:49 am
SixOfWands wrote:
Well, that's certainly victim blaming.

I hear it vis a vis antisemitism all the time. "Look at what those whatever Jews do ...." Inexcusable. And inexcusable here too.

Racism is always inexcusable.


Illegals are not victims! We are the victims of their actions. They don't deserve a thing from us. We should [inhumane suggestion removed] so they should run back to where they came from and no one should want to come in illegally.
What is so hard to come in legally?
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:50 am
SixOfWands wrote:

Her point is that every person has a story. .


Yes. Can't we reply, and even challenge her if you want, without dissing her?
PSA to anyone who is going to reply and in the process demean her and invalidate her feelings: If you hold yourself back, and reframe what you want to say while still getting your message across, you have done the mitzvah of refraining from ona'as devarim. Kol hakavod!
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:51 am
Is OP able to reply while maintaining her anonymity?
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SixOfWands




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 07 2020, 9:51 am
small bean wrote:
We don't know Jews did have a bad name at the time for living in poverty and not pulling their weight. I am going to ask my grandmother who's parents were born here.


I was being rhetorical, but n any case, my great grandparents emigrated from Russia to Germany, where they said, "the only thing more antisemitic than a German is a German Jew." The German Jews were educated and middle class; the emigrants were poor and uneducated. So they wound up in the US. Which was obviously a good thing.
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