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UPDATE:How would you react? What’s your parenting philosophy
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amother




Maroon
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 4:35 pm
groisamomma wrote:
Do you mind if I ask which steps you are taking to heal (what you call) her sick brain? Meaning, a medication that will fix a chemical imbalance? Or are the things in your previous post what you refer to as methods to healing her brain?

(No offense, but I can't think of anything more offensive than to say someone has a sick brain. Even if it's true and even if she never hears you say it. To me it's hurtful and sounds spiteful. I understand that it's coming from a place of hurt but my heart breaks for a little girl whose perception of herself is that she has a sick brain.)

Hug

I'm sorry you found it offensive. I can totally hear why. Some people find it offensive, and some people find it empowering. I never say it to my child, but it helps me in the moment to tell myself that it's not her, but her illness. Fwiw, does brain on fire come off less offensive? Maybe inflamed brain is better than sick brain. Because that's literally what it is for us. My child has a medically diagnosed encephalopathy that makes her act this way.
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amother




Lemon
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 5:50 pm
amother [ Maroon ] wrote:
I'm sorry you found it offensive. I can totally hear why. Some people find it offensive, and some people find it empowering. I never say it to my child, but it helps me in the moment to tell myself that it's not her, but her illness. Fwiw, does brain on fire come off less offensive? Maybe inflamed brain is better than sick brain. Because that's literally what it is for us. My child has a medically diagnosed encephalopathy that makes her act this way.


Wow, kol hakavod to you and your little girl with that condition. You sound like an amazing mother and person.
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dancingqueen




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 5:59 pm
Hugs op. Is this the “easier” son, or the older one you posted about previously? It sounds tough, no advice, just hugs.
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bigsis144




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 6:16 pm
dancingqueen wrote:
Hugs op. Is this the “easier” son, or the older one you posted about previously? It sounds tough, no advice, just hugs.


This is the younger son, the one in public school due to his delays and difficulty fitting into the Yeshivish elementary school box. He is much better behaved at school than at home!
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amother




Firebrick
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 9:01 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
I think that the OLDER the child is the HARDER it is to teach them respect for others.

The more a bad behavior is repeated the more the brain wiring is re-inforced to that bad behavior

I believe teaching children to be respectful (not abusive) to others is the highest priority - more important than reading and math - which is easier to teach when older than to teach a teen to be respectful after a childhood of being abusive.

Someone asked sara Chana Radcliffe , "at what age should I start teaching my kid about respectful communication?"
She said, "as soon as they begin to communicate. "
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amother




Blush
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 10:13 pm
amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:
Someone asked sara Chana Radcliffe , "at what age should I start teaching my kid about respectful communication?"
She said, "as soon as they begin to communicate. "

This has nothing to do with when they actually successfully have learned. It takes even typical kids many many years to get words right.
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amother




Firebrick
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 10:20 pm
amother [ Blush ] wrote:
This has nothing to do with when they actually successfully have learned. It takes even typical kids many many years to get words right.

The question was when to START. I can train my two year old to ask me for a cookie with a please (and I do) rather than let him get away with saying, "I want a cookie". It doesn't mean they will be perfect, but you can start teaching them proper communication as soon as they learn to talk.
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amother




Maroon
 

Post  Thu, Feb 13 2020, 1:52 pm
amother [ Lemon ] wrote:
Wow, kol hakavod to you and your little girl with that condition. You sound like an amazing mother and person.
Makes me wonder how many other little children out there are struggling with this condition. The symptoms are all behavioral, it looks identical to odd/adhd/asd. We could easily have gone misdiagnosed for years had we chosen to go down the psych/behavioral/developmental route instead of the medical-neurological one.
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saw50st8




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 13 2020, 2:52 pm
#BestBubby wrote:
I think that the OLDER the child is the HARDER it is to teach them respect for others.

The more a bad behavior is repeated the more the brain wiring is re-inforced to that bad behavior

I believe teaching children to be respectful (not abusive) to others is the highest priority - more important than reading and math - which is easier to teach when older than to teach a teen to be respectful after a childhood of being abusive.


So is teaching your kid to walk. That doesn't change my statement. If your child needs physical therapy to correct a weakness or problem, then no amount of you showing them how will help. Some kids will never be able to walk, some kids learn later than others and some kids learn easily and early.

Parents with kids who are disrespectful are not showing their kids that it is OK to communicate that way. They are putting that expectation to the side (or not focusing on it) so they can work on foundation skills. Or they are letting go of the expectation until they can try again.

"Bad kids" are usually behaving poorly for a reason. If you can fix the underlying issue, you can work on the respectful communication portion much more easily.
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amother




Ecru
 

Post  Thu, Feb 13 2020, 2:53 pm
amother [ Maroon ] wrote:
Makes me wonder how many other little children out there are struggling with this condition. The symptoms are all behavioral, it looks identical to odd/adhd/asd. We could easily have gone misdiagnosed for years had we chosen to go down the psych/behavioral/developmental route instead of the medical-neurological one.


Was there a known cause for this condition or is it something she was born with?
Is it a permanent condition or is it treatable ?
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bigsis144




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 27 2020, 1:04 pm
UPDATED:

DS7 tried out a modern orthodox school nearby that has better resources than the yeshivish school. He was nervous but optimistic about it (he didn't have any friends in his grade, but was excited to play at recess with a friend a year older than him that he knows from shul).

The results were crushing but not unexpected:
- his academic performance is just fine (though he is behind in limudei kodesh skills).
- his sensory and impulsivity issues are getting in the way (he fidgeted so much he fell out of his chair, he would rush through reading and make careless mistakes)
- he has an "alarmingly aggressive imagination" (to quote the principal): when classmates were discussing their goals for the weekend, his goal was to "murder his brother", and even after he was asked to give another answer, he doubled down and stuck with that answer. His drawings and writing samples were similarly violent.

The Jewish principal had observed him in public school and didn't see this kind of behavior - he was very "engaged" and followed rules and routines with only minimal prompting. So, she says, why mess with a good thing? Perhaps because he feels "on display" and different from his peers in public school, he can keep it together. At a Jewish school, he feels "at home" and there's more of his home-type behaviors leaking through, and his classroom teacher can't be expected to deal with his social/behavioral issues.

Again, I'm not surprised, but it's still crushing.
I'm still on the JSSA waiting list, and the NUMEROUS non-insured therapists that have been recommended highly to me take $210 a session, no sliding scale.
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ra_mom




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 27 2020, 1:10 pm
I am so so sorry bigsis144! Wishing you strength and yeshuos quickly! Hug
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amother




Mauve
 

Post  Thu, Feb 27 2020, 4:30 pm
He sounds very angry. Would you send him to a therapist to find the source of the anger and then you can make changes as you see fit
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studying_torah




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 27 2020, 4:43 pm
Maybe he would benefit from a therapeutic school?
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 27 2020, 5:21 pm
amother [ Mauve ] wrote:
He sounds very angry. Would you send him to a therapist to find the source of the anger and then you can make changes as you see fit


This is something I would address immediately. Never mind disrespectful speech for now. Extreme violent fantasies, art, and threats are not to be brushed aside. They can be early warnings of much worse things to come, CVS. If something does happen, you can look back and see the pattern from the beginning.

Aggressive thoughts combined with impulse control issues and immature social behavior is a volatile mix.

Please, get him professional help NOW, no matter what it takes. In the meantime, I suggest hiding all matches, knives, and scissors. A locked cabinet is a good idea for all things that could potentially be dangerous.
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bigsis144




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 28 2020, 2:44 pm
As I pick DS7 up from school, he runs out the door and yells to the teacher on duty as he runs past her, “Blah blah blah Ms Thomas, your life is worth less than a penny to me!”

I’m shocked and still processing that when he turns to me and says “what does that mean? That your life is worth less than a penny?”

Me: “it’s a very mean thing to say. A penny isn’t worth very much, so it’s like saying they don’t matter. It’s a hurtful, rude thing to say —

DS7: “is saying that a curse word?”

Me: “no, it’s not a curse word but it’s totally unacceptable. You can be disrespectful and hurtful even without curse words — why would you say such a horrible thing to Ms. Thomas?”

DS7: “because I hate her. She’s too annoying.”

Me: “what does she do that annoys you?”

DS7: “she talks too much. She’s obsessed with me!!”

Me: “what do you mean?”

DS7: “she’s too too too kind and I hate her. Also she was speaking Portuguese cuz she’s from Brazil.”

Then he dashed past me.

One of the other teachers called to him, “have a great weekend, Moishy!”

And he yelled back, “I won’t!!”



Should I have marched him back to Ms. Thomas and demanded that he apologize? Just keeping up with him as he dashes across the yard and across the street takes all my attention
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mha3484




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 28 2020, 2:56 pm
I would not. When you get home, I would say something like Moishy I noticed that you really are having a hard time with your teacher. I can understand that that must be really hard for you. I would lay on the empathy as thick as you can. He should see your on his team and that you want to help him. Its really important.

Then I would ask him, is there anything specific that you dont like about her? If its not her ask about specific subjects. Then wait and see what he says. You would be really surprised.

My kid was coming home complaining only about the general studies teacher and not the rebbe. When I asked him why he likes one and not the other he told me she takes away their recess for misbehavior. For him that was really upsetting and he would come home and tell me how much he hated her. I couldnt figure out why he could be so rude hes a very sweet boy. For a 3rd grade boy recess is a huge deal. Taking it away is like the ultimate torture for a kid. If I didnt get him to tell me that I would keep thinking that my kid is obnoxious and rude and what did I do wrong.
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notshanarishona




 
 
 
 

Post  Fri, Feb 28 2020, 4:19 pm
bigsis144 wrote:
As I pick DS7 up from school, he runs out the door and yells to the teacher on duty as he runs past her, “Blah blah blah Ms Thomas, your life is worth less than a penny to me!”

I’m shocked and still processing that when he turns to me and says “what does that mean? That your life is worth less than a penny?”

Me: “it’s a very mean thing to say. A penny isn’t worth very much, so it’s like saying they don’t matter. It’s a hurtful, rude thing to say —

DS7: “is saying that a curse word?”

Me: “no, it’s not a curse word but it’s totally unacceptable. You can be disrespectful and hurtful even without curse words — why would you say such a horrible thing to Ms. Thomas?”

DS7: “because I hate her. She’s too annoying.”

Me: “what does she do that annoys you?”

DS7: “she talks too much. She’s obsessed with me!!”

Me: “what do you mean?”

DS7: “she’s too too too kind and I hate her. Also she was speaking Portuguese cuz she’s from Brazil.”

Then he dashed past me.

One of the other teachers called to him, “have a great weekend, Moishy!”

And he yelled back, “I won’t!!”



Should I have marched him back to Ms. Thomas and demanded that he apologize? Just keeping up with him as he dashes across the yard and across the street takes all my attention


Not in the moment when he is upset but I would make him write an apology letter or verbally apologize on Monday . Teachers have feelings too.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post  Sat, Feb 29 2020, 11:38 am
Running away and running into the street or across a busy parking lot is way more scary than him just being oppositional.

Please take serious steps to keep him physically safe, before you worry about his social manners.

Like I said upthread, he needs serious therapy NOW. Without intervention, I fear for his future. He is not just being rude, he seems very disturbed.
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amother




Magenta
 

Post  Sat, Feb 29 2020, 10:07 pm
I apologize but I don't remember whether or not your son is seeing a psychiatrist. If not, please consider finding someone who takes your insurance and exploring the possibility of medication. Your son's difficulties are complex enough that even with an excellent child psychologist you will not likely see a dramatic turnaround.
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