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Would you invite this family for shabbos?
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naturalmom5




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 2:10 pm
I dont know what to advise ,

What I do know is DONT POSKIN YOURSELF

You need big Daas Torah.. If you dont help them and you have the resources to , it could be middos achzorious (cruelty ) on your part

On the other hand, maybe you will do an avla to your children..
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heidi




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 2:10 pm
amother [ Lime ] wrote:
we live in a charedi shtetl ike community.

I became great friends with a lady who was divorced 2 times, both exhusbands were abusive, her second ex husband abused the girls s3xually over a long period of time, she had no clue Sad

the oldest girl is OTD (think drugs etc) all other chidlren live at home attend top schools are very liked by peers etc.

she works hard on enabling all six children at home a good childhood dispite the fact that she is a single parent, has very little money, her kid suffer PTSD, she has no family in tghis country, her exhusband threatens her etc.

she is an amazing role model. she works very very hard , she learned the language of this country very fst and very well so that she could find a better paying job (she has no formal education), she is always positive, all kids are in therapy, she makes sure the oldest boy ahs a 'mentor' in yeshiva who takes care of him (like a father figure, a chassidic psychologist), who helps with 'boy-purchases (think tfilin, new hat...) and makes sure he has great chevrusa partners, she teaches the litte ones musical instruments, she is not embarassed to ask for tzeddaka and mmany people actively try to help , because they see how much she puts into her chidlren.(one baal chesed payed for the bar mizva , another one invited them on a small vacation last summer) etc.

they are VERY grateful but most of all she likes being part of it all. she told me ones after her second divorce, that she was scared they would be ignored/isolated, it would be the worse .

many families invite them to seudos, parties, birthdays : neigbours, friends. we know she has been to hell and the fact that she 'lost' her oldest child is vey painful too...
why should we add to her problems by closing our doors?

I actually started using one of her teen girls as a babysitter now, this way she can make some money of her own and my kids live her.

(most of us are chassidsh but some families are litvis/yeshivis- more on the right side if, that makes a difference in this case. )

I would never ever use a child who has possibly been zexually abused as a babysitter.
That is just plain stupid and dangerous.
This woman obviously ignored what was going on in her home and allowed her children to be abused.
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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 2:21 pm
Thank you for all the responses. I have not discussed it with a rav, but that's probably the right start, and then take it from there.
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amother




Jade
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 2:23 pm
Op, I hear your concerns. I'd be most concerned about kids who were sxually abused becoming abusers too. It happens, unfortunately. I'd be very wary of opening up the doors for my kids to become friends with them.
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amother




Aubergine
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 2:29 pm
amother [ Jade ] wrote:
Op, I hear your concerns. I'd be most concerned about kids who were sxually abused becoming abusers too. It happens, unfortunately. I'd be very wary of opening up the doors for my kids to become friends with them.


Yeah.

Those kids are garbage now. They should be barred from our schools, barred from our homes, lest our pure kids be infected by them.

And just you wait. You know that when they're grown, having spent their entire childhoods being shunned, friendless, they'll go off the derech.

And you wonder why people are afraid to report abuse.
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amother




Aubergine
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 2:31 pm
amother [ Lime ] wrote:
we live in a charedi shtetl ike community.

I became great friends with a lady who was divorced 2 times, both exhusbands were abusive, her second ex husband abused the girls s3xually over a long period of time, she had no clue Sad

the oldest girl is OTD (think drugs etc) all other chidlren live at home attend top schools are very liked by peers etc.

she works hard on enabling all six children at home a good childhood dispite the fact that she is a single parent, has very little money, her kid suffer PTSD, she has no family in tghis country, her exhusband threatens her etc.

she is an amazing role model. she works very very hard , she learned the language of this country very fst and very well so that she could find a better paying job (she has no formal education), she is always positive, all kids are in therapy, she makes sure the oldest boy ahs a 'mentor' in yeshiva who takes care of him (like a father figure, a chassidic psychologist), who helps with 'boy-purchases (think tfilin, new hat...) and makes sure he has great chevrusa partners, she teaches the litte ones musical instruments, she is not embarassed to ask for tzeddaka and mmany people actively try to help , because they see how much she puts into her chidlren.(one baal chesed payed for the bar mizva , another one invited them on a small vacation last summer) etc.

they are VERY grateful but most of all she likes being part of it all. she told me ones after her second divorce, that she was scared they would be ignored/isolated, it would be the worse .

many families invite them to seudos, parties, birthdays : neigbours, friends. we know she has been to hell and the fact that she 'lost' her oldest child is vey painful too...
why should we add to her problems by closing our doors?

I actually started using one of her teen girls as a babysitter now, this way she can make some money of her own and my kids live her.

(most of us are chassidsh but some families are litvis/yeshivis- more on the right side if, that makes a difference in this case. )


You, and your community, restore my faith in humanity. May Hashem bless you all.
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amother




Rose
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 2:36 pm
heidi wrote:

This woman obviously ignored what was going on in her home and allowed her children to be abused.

Why would you say that? Sometimes incest doesn’t come out for years. Abusers are incredibly sneaky and manipulative.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 2:36 pm
heidi wrote:
I would never ever use a child who has possibly been zexually abused as a babysitter.
That is just plain stupid and dangerous.
This woman obviously ignored what was going on in her home and allowed her children to be abused.


WHAT?

There a lot of women on this board who have been zexually abused, and to say that they are dangerous is just plain mean. And how do you know that the wife knew about the abuse while it was happening? Some moms will look the other way and ignore it out of fear, and some are genuinely clueless. Kids are usually terrified to admit what is going on and ask for help. You have no idea what went on in the home.

OP, if you don't want to invite, then don't invite. At least you are being honest about your feelings.

Just consider this: How many families are you inviting over, where you have no idea whether or not the kids are being abused? Can you tell just by looking at them? You've probably already had a few abused kids in your home, making friends with your kids. You have no way of knowing.

At least with this family, you can have a head's up and make some rules about where and how they play together, which you should be doing anyway! (No playing in locked bedrooms, etc.) Teach your kids about safe behavior, and you won't have to worry.

If someone CVS abused any of your kids, I don't think that you would want them to become pariahs of the neighborhood. Ostracizing people is a really good way of guaranteeing that they go OTD. I'm not saying that you are personally responsible for anyone else's kids, I'm just saying to think about whether you can handle this. Maybe if you can't personally invite them, you can find some other family who can, or help them in a different way.
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amother




Blue
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 2:37 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
There is a lovely woman in my community who has been to h*ll and back. Her husband is locked up for abusing the kids, and at least one kid is OTD from the abuse. There are a lot of kids, and I don't know what their exposure was to all of this, but there was some, if not more.
I feel absolutely terrible, but I don't feel comfortable inviting them to my house, because the kids are similar ages to mine, and I am nervous about friendships with these kids. It sounds even worse when I write it. What would you do in this situation?


I can’t blame you. Your priority has to be your own family and protecting your kids. I guess a rabbi should be consulted as to what kind of eitza there is for this family. Hashem yeracheim.
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amother




Blue
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 2:38 pm
salt wrote:
I would invite them. They're probably thirsty for a nice warm family environment.

My kids (age ~9 - 19) aren't the type to make immediate long-lasting friendships with kids that come for a shabbos meal here and there. They take time to warm up to kids that they don't know. So that wouldn't be a concern for me.

Do you really think the family could show abusive behaviour when being hosted for a shabbos meal? They'll most likely be polite, thankful and really enjoy themselves.


So I think you should give OP your contact info and she can hook you up with the family.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 2:53 pm
amother [ Blue ] wrote:
So I think you should give OP your contact info and she can hook you up with the family.


Give them my info. I'll be happy to host them any time. The only problem is, my apartment is tiny. When the weather warms up we can have a Shabbos picnic in the courtyard.

I'm quite serious. If they're in Israel, PM me.
=======================================

BTW, I'm wondering if OP feels the same way about BTs. Because of their secular past, does that make them dangerous too? If so, you'd better not invite me over. Who knows what I might do to your kids? Heck, I might even seduce your husband while I'm at it.

/sarcasm Rolling Eyes

ETA: I just made a spin off thread.
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ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 4:23 pm
amother [ Blue ] wrote:
I can’t blame you. Your priority has to be your own family and protecting your kids. I guess a rabbi should be consulted as to what kind of eitza there is for this family. Hashem yeracheim.

OK but
protecting them from what???

Second-hand s-xual abuse is not a thing.

Being abused does not make kids evil or scary.

It would be one thing if OP said that she had some special reason to think these kids were problematic somehow, if it were like "I feel bad for them but they act out a lot and sometimes hit other children." But there's nothing like that. Just a bunch of kids like any other kids, except they went through something terrible.
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ora_43




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 4:27 pm
amother [ Jade ] wrote:
Op, I hear your concerns. I'd be most concerned about kids who were sxually abused becoming abusers too. It happens, unfortunately. I'd be very wary of opening up the doors for my kids to become friends with them.

I think you're mixing up two very different things.

Many/most people who commit s-xual abuse were s-xually abused as children.

The reverse is not true.

This is such a damaging myth that I feel the need to say it again:

The reverse is not true.

The vast majority of children who are s-xually abused do not themselves become abusers.
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chayamiriam




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 4:43 pm
Wow people are so mean when bad things happen they can happen to any family! Guess what you don't know the background of any family that crosses your threshold, you also can't know the background of every friend your child makes. Having this family over for a meal won't be contagious. Wow when we ask hasem for rachmunus for our family's we don't want him to see our actions and words against a family that has been through so much trama! That's not what being a Torah Jew is.
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amother




Pearl
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 4:44 pm
This thread is really freaking depressing to me.

Hey, live-in-a-bubble people: in the frum world abuse tends to be swept under the rug, tolerated and never spoken about. Which means ANY ONE of your precious children's friends could be the unfortunate recipient of abuse at home, or witnessing their parent being abused. And you wouldn't know. And they can "infect" your kid just as much as this poor woman who OP is terrified to have infiltrate her home. OY! Please have some common sense and some compassion people!
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sarad216




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 4:51 pm
I have to share with u but we cant judge. I was introduced to a lady who has 2 kids and she was abused by her husband and fsther in law! Yet she is such a gentle soul. Unfort these people have this exposure and they chalish to meet people who are warm loving and accepting. Its almost been a year and became so close toher and help her in so many ways and u know what she tell me u gave me another chance to life and helped me gain my self confidence and she went through therapy.. she told me having a warm loving friend did much more fro her then any therapy.. they need someone to build relationship with healthy relaitionship and show them that not everyone in life is cruel.. if u need more help u can pm I dealt with a lot of these issues and bh they love a warm shabbos meal....
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zaftigmom




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Feb 12 2020, 10:38 pm
When I found out my daughter's friend was molested I just made sure they didn't spend too much time alone together. They're very young so this isn't very hard to enforce. Of course your family is a priority but going through what they went through doesn't make them dangerous. It just means they have exposure to some things you might not want your kids to know about. I think with precautions, you should absolutely invite them over.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post  Sun, Feb 16 2020, 3:33 pm
Of course we would invite this family. Davka when it seems that everything is falling apart for a family, that is when a community has to come together and not let them fall through the cracks.
I think it is so important to invite this family to also have them see what a normal household might look like.
OP, just know that there are many out there that would not even think twice before inviting this majorly hurt family.
It isnt their fault they are damaged in so many ways. Let the community take part in their healing, if at all possible, large or small.
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amother




Ruby
 

Post  Sun, Feb 16 2020, 3:50 pm
I was abused because my parents where as naive as most of the posters on this board. My parents felt bad for a single mom who's son was abused by his dad, he went on to abuse me at socail setting we both attended that had less supervison then the shabbos meal at my home.
I here what ppl. are saying abot ostracizing but its incredibly naive not to recognize the real risk.
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