High school suspends 22 girls for ticktoc

Ema of 5

Sat, Feb 15 2020, 11:00 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You're obviously taking my point completely out of context. I'm saying that it's reasonable that half the parent body in this particular school is ok with social media. It's a 5towns school and if so many girls were caught, it's very likely many weren't caught. This is not an example were 1 or 2 girls or families have hashkafa not in line with the vast majority.

A few years ago my sons menahel sent out an email informing parents that any boy absent as a result of overextending midwinter break will be suspended. When more the half the students were absent on the first day back, the yeshiva just abandoned the rule.

I’m not taking your point out of context, I was never responding to you. I’m not really sure what tictoc is or how it works, but right now the rule in our house is that our kids can’t participate in anything that allows hem to communicate with random strangers. So no Snapchat, Facebook, fortnight, etc. As they get older, they will get phones and will have limited access to things that can connect them to random strangers. I don’t understand why it is such a grave sin for teenagers to be stuck communicating through regular text and phone calls. If they have Facebook or anything else, we will have access to their accounts. Yes, as they get older (and show more responsibility, and more ability to make good, levelheaded decisions) they will have more freedom, but they will still be our kids and we will still have some say.
I know what school this is, I’ve got plenty of friends who send there. Parents can be ok with whatever hey are ok with, but if you send your kids to a particular school, you need to follow the rules. When you register, you get a handbook. Make sure you, AND YOUR CHILD knows what’s expected and acceptable. Don’t get upset that your daughter got sent home for wearing knee socks if her school has a rule that they need to wear tights. Don’t get upset that your son is not allowed to wear his blue and green sneakers if the school has a rule that shows have to be black.
He only thing your sons menahel accomplishes was to show the kids that he’s not serious. If you make a rule and a consequence, be ready to follow though. If you aren’t going to follow through, don’t make the rule.

amother

Coral

Sat, Feb 15 2020, 11:23 pm

My daughter's school recently had an open question-answer session with a well-known Rosh yeshiva.
In response to a question, he said, remember when your daughter was 4 yo, how much you looked into the schools and decided you wanted THIS school because of the chinuch, or the image or for whatever reason. But you pushed to get into this school. There are plenty of other schools that have less of a name, or a bit more to the left or whatever, but you wanted this school. It's important for you to remember that you wanted this one. Now they have rules? Follow them!

southernbubby

Sun, Feb 16 2020, 4:33 am

I once got upset about a rule that stated that students who missed an exam due to illness would not be given an opportunity to make up the test. I told the principal that I would give enough Tylenol to get the kid through the test and would have no concern about the danger to anyone exposed to whatever contagious disease that my child would be spreading because my child came first. The rule got changed because other people could be just as selfish as I could be. School could become a dangerous place.

If Tik Tok is that important to the parents and students, either get the rule changed or deal with the consequences. You can probably get by with hiding a fever but not a public social media post.

When people get into shidduchim, every stupid thing that they ever posted on social media, comes back to haunt them.

PinkFridge

Sun, Feb 16 2020, 8:11 am

amother [ Forestgreen ] wrote:

You must be sending your kids to very interesting schools.

22 girls disregarding rules.

Half of yeshiva disregarding rules.

OP, where on earth is this? Ans why are people sending to schools they don't agree with?

Evidently these are rules the parents can't handle.
In the case of the yeshiva and vacation, my guess is the boys have a shorter vacation than the girls and the parents make the plans based on their daughters. This is something the yeshiva will have to figure out but it's not the same as a behavior and lifestyle that impacts daily living like social networking or tic tock. (And yes, this is the first time I've heard of tt.)

amother

Papaya

Sun, Feb 16 2020, 8:18 am

southernbubby wrote:

...

When people get into shidduchim, every stupid thing that they ever posted on social media, comes back to haunt them.

I was looking into a girl for a boy. The reports were all the same that she's a good girl...but something felt off. Looking at her resume picture she looked tznius but I felt there was something wrong with the photo. I researched the girl's social media accounts. I found that she wasn't really so tznius. She had edited the photo and didn't realize that when you put one photo ontop of another you need to make sure it's 100% alligned. Her neck was not really that long. She was trying to cover her low neck shirt!

That was the end of that shidduch.

Ema of 5

Sun, Feb 16 2020, 8:30 am

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

The school has more power and can impose its will on people who have no choice but to listen.

Do you never speak up, or ask why a new rule was made? I do, all the time!!! Most schools are not trying to world power. They are trying to do what they think is best to keep your children physically and spiritually safe. Obviously there are some schools that are all about the power, but most are not. If you have an issue with something in the school, speak up about it. Ask why new rules are being instituted. Find out what the catalyst was for change.

amother

Cerulean

Sun, Feb 16 2020, 9:05 am

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

The real question is, have they taught the girls about tznius, and why social media is bad? Clearly they were ineffective.
If they cared about the girls, they would teach this, especially now that they know there's an issue.

Schools can only teach what isn’t being contradicted at home. We can’t teach our students to wear skirts that cover their knees if their mothers are wearing and buying them miniskirts. The schools have tried teaching about it, but the kids aren’t listening.
Please, teach me your magical methods of how to get teenage/preteen girls to listen to their teachers instead of outside influences. I’ve had open honest discussions with my 13 year old students about TikTok. That’s how I know exactly what they’re doing. They’re brainwashed and pushed by peer pressure and the parents don’t care.

amother

Floralwhite

Sun, Feb 16 2020, 10:26 am

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

This is so true and so upsetting. I give you so much credit for working with this highly sensitive age group. It's the hardest.

I'd genuinely like to know: how do you know the parents don't care? Have you approached them and been met with ambivalence? What kind of signals are your getting that shows the parents don't care? This is so scary to me. Do they simply not know or understand? Or do they really think the kids need to learn about it somehow?

To me social media is not so different than the clubs and lounges I used to sneak out of the house to go to when I was a kid. Even worse it's in your pocket all day long. And now these people actually know where you live and go to school, because of all the oversharing.

Also an "open" baiss yaakov is still a baiss yaakov. I have a hard time believing that in an "open" baiss yaakov this would be allowed.

SixOfWands

Sun, Feb 16 2020, 11:25 am

Ema of 4 wrote:

I wouldn’t send my kid to a school that has a rule requiring students to kick their math book. My kids schools all have chalav Yisrael requirements, and while we are not makpid, I make sure that everything I buy for school is chalav Yisrael. Like I said before, I won’t get something for my daughter, even though, lots of her friends have it, because the school doesn’t want the girls to have it. If she wears nail polish for a simcha or chag, I try to make sure it’s off before she goes to school. There will always be rules you don’t agree with. The question is how do you approach it, and how you address it with your child.

But you are basically telling your kids that the school is wrong, and chalav yisrael isn’t important. You’re disagreeing with the school’s rules, no less than someone who allows their child to have social media at home is.

Think of how your choice redounds to other students who keep chalav yisrael. Your kids are telling other kids that the school is wrong, and that what the school tells them isn’t kosher is really just fine.

If you’re really going to take the stance that not following school rules at home is basis for expulsion, then take it all the way.

And I do think that if the school is expelling 10% of its students, it needs to take a long hard look at itself. Maybe we need to teach our kids about the risks of social media, and how to use it safely, since it looks like, in that school certainly, it’s a fact of life.

Ema of 5

Sun, Feb 16 2020, 11:29 am

SixOfWands wrote:

I am not saying that the school is wrong. I am saying hat the school has a rule, and therefore we need to follow the rule in school. The school has no rule about what we do OUT of school. If they did, I would think twice before sending my kids there.
We follow the out of school rules, because those are the school rules for the schools we choose to send our children to. In school rules and out of school rules are very different. I agree with you 100% when it comes to our do school rules, but rules that are only for in school are not MEANT to be followed out of school.

BH5745

Sun, Feb 16 2020, 12:44 pm

Banning secular literature and theatre didn't stop 80% or so of Europe's Jewish youth from turning to secularism during the haskala. At some point, the Rabbonim were speaking, but nobody was listening (or caring). And banning tictick or facebook or whatever website won't stop frum Jewish kids from turning to these mediums. Suspending students for smartphones or using social media will only entice their curiosity even more, and won't scare students off either. The only lesson the girls learned here was, whatever is on Ticktock must be pretty scandalous, and if one wants to see what goes on there, one must cover their tracks better. I highly doubt these girls are crying tears of repentance over their wicked aveiros...

FranticFrummie

Sun, Feb 16 2020, 12:54 pm

Iymnok wrote:

Why would anyone want their kids to have an account on this type of app?
I don’t see it as hashkafa, rather protecting the girls.

The app is not the problem, it's what the girls are using it for. Like anything on the internet, or even IRL, things are neutral. They can be used for good or bad, but that doesn't inherently make them bad in themselves.

You can build a house with a hammer, and you could kill someone with it. You can use Watsapp to arrange food for a new mother, or to spread nasty gossip.

The point isn't to ban things, it's to teach people how to be decent human beings, and to have some seichel. If the girls are too young to be using social media, or are showing no maturity or seichel, then I can understand taking it away from them until they are ready to handle it responsibly.

DD uses it to post clips of her lip syncing to her favorite music, or to show her friends cracking up over something silly. She's not the least bit interested in following boys, or showing any part of herself that should stay covered. That's because I started teaching her internet safety from the time she was old enough to understand "bad guys".

Kids need education to navigate the world today. Knowledge is protection, not ignorance. Keeping kids wrapped in a bubble just doesn't work anymore. There is no more shtetle, no matter how much people wish there was.

*Said with all due respect. You know I love you!