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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
High school suspends 22 girls for ticktoc
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Feb 16 2020, 12:59 pm
I suggest schools look into the penimi curriculum regarding technology.
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amother
Floralwhite


 

Post Sun, Feb 16 2020, 1:05 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
The app is not the problem, it's what the girls are using it for. Like anything on the internet, or even IRL, things are neutral. They can be used for good or bad, but that doesn't inherently make them bad in themselves.

You can build a house with a hammer, and you could kill someone with it. You can use Watsapp to arrange food for a new mother, or to spread nasty gossip.

The point isn't to ban things, it's to teach people how to be decent human beings, and to have some seichel. If the girls are too young to be using social media, or are showing no maturity or seichel, then I can understand taking it away from them until they are ready to handle it responsibly.

DD uses it to post clips of her lip syncing to her favorite music, or to show her friends cracking up over something silly. She's not the least bit interested in following boys, or showing any part of herself that should stay covered. That's because I started teaching her internet safety from the time she was old enough to understand "bad guys".

Kids need education to navigate the world today. Knowledge is protection, not ignorance. Keeping kids wrapped in a bubble just doesn't work anymore. There is no more shtetle, no matter how much people wish there was.

*Said with all due respect. You know I love you!


You have a point but the school still reserves the right to manage how they see fit with the guidance of the rabbanim who give them hadracha. Ideally a
person sends to the school with the hashkafa they want.

It's a very similar argument to zwx Ed and teaching how to use condoms. Teach them how to stay safe as they are doing it anyway. Or don't teach and don't let.
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amother
Cerulean


 

Post Sun, Feb 16 2020, 1:09 pm
amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:
This is so true and so upsetting. I give you so much credit for working with this highly sensitive age group. It's the hardest.

I'd genuinely like to know: how do you know the parents don't care? Have you approached them and been met with ambivalence? What kind of signals are your getting that shows the parents don't care? This is so scary to me. Do they simply not know or understand? Or do they really think the kids need to learn about it somehow?

To me social media is not so different than the clubs and lounges I used to sneak out of the house to go to when I was a kid. Even worse it's in your pocket all day long. And now these people actually know where you live and go to school, because of all the oversharing.

Also an "open" baiss yaakov is still a baiss yaakov. I have a hard time believing that in an "open" baiss yaakov this would be allowed.


The parents are making the same excuses as the kids about how it’s not so bad. Or they shrug and say “she doesn’t listen to me, can’t you tell her?”
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amother
Peach


 

Post Sun, Feb 16 2020, 8:32 pm
BH5745 wrote:
Banning secular literature and theatre didn't stop 80% or so of Europe's Jewish youth from turning to secularism during the haskala. At some point, the Rabbonim were speaking, but nobody was listening (or caring). And banning tictick or facebook or whatever website won't stop frum Jewish kids from turning to these mediums. Suspending students for smartphones or using social media will only entice their curiosity even more, and won't scare students off either. The only lesson the girls learned here was, whatever is on Ticktock must be pretty scandalous, and if one wants to see what goes on there, one must cover their tracks better. I highly doubt these girls are crying tears of repentance over their wicked aveiros...


My mother once picked up secular Yiddish literature written by prize winning authors in Pre-war Poland. The books were irresistable. since they subtly denigrated Jewish values we ended up getting rid of them.
I cannot imagine yidden hooked on this literature remained frum nor left Yiddishe doros...

Some call Dass Torah "banning". I call it dass Torah. History repeats itself.
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Sun, Feb 16 2020, 9:14 pm
Schools are entitled to enforce exsisting rules. That said school should just have their own accounts & follow their students across all platforms. But seriously, you have a choice in how you use sm. Tik tok is not inherently bad, girls who are rebellious are using it as their tool. They can confiscate all the tools as the kids find them, the rebellion remains, there will be the next one. The root of the issue and the help for the kid is ignored.
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amother
Ivory


 

Post Sun, Feb 16 2020, 9:17 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
They didn't expel. They suspended.

You're right.
I'm pretty sure they didn't suspend every girl with ticktoc
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amother
Slategray


 

Post Sun, Feb 16 2020, 9:50 pm
amother [ Ivory ] wrote:
You're right.
I'm pretty sure they didn't suspend every girl with ticktoc


Amother ivory, you seem to have your own agenda here. My daughter goes to the school and yes, they suspended every single girl that they knew of with a TikTok account. And this includes wealthy girls. I don’t know what bitter experience you have had with your school but please don’t state lies about a situation you know nothing about.
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amother
Slategray


 

Post Sun, Feb 16 2020, 10:12 pm
Ivory, these are the quotes you have made so far:
Quote:
Regarding the OP, I bet girls with ticktoc and rich parents/related to hanhala weren't suspended.

I don't know where this school is, but in Brooklyn BY high and middle schools, TONS of girls have ticktoc. Same with smartphones.


Quote:
I have no idea what school the OP is talking about, but I'm willing to bet they DIDN'T expel every single girl with ticktoc


Quote:
I'm pretty sure they didn't suspend every girl with ticktoc


Another parent, amother cerise, has already posted in reply to you:

Quote:
Responding as a parent in the school. One of the things we respect most about this school is that the hanhala does not care what your last name is or how much money you gave to the school. If you can't abide by the rules, you are respectfully asked to leave.


I am also a parent in the school and am seconding the statement above. You have said that you have no idea which school it is. Therefore, you obviously wouldn’t know which girls were suspended and for you to write statements like that is even worse than lashon harsh. It is motzi Shem ra.
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amother
Beige


 

Post Sun, Feb 16 2020, 10:26 pm
I agree with everyone who is posting that if you choose a school, you have to listen to the school's rules. And if there is a rule you don't like or you think isn't fair for whatever reason, discuss it with the administration. And if you still don't agree, leave.

And to the point that the above isn't fair because people don't have a choice of schools, it seems to me that the only reason why a school makes rules about internet/smartphones/social media, etc. is BECAUSE there is a choice of schools. When a community gets big enough to have a second girls high school, at the end of the day the dividing line is usually hashkafa related. And when there are 3, 4, 5, 6 plus girls high schools, each school is catering to a certain hashkafic group so it sets rules and curriculum and everything else based on this. And I don't know what comes first, the chicken or the egg, but the parent body wants to send to a place where everyone aligns to their hashkafa, and so the whole system continues.

I could be wrong about that, it's just how it seems to me.
I grew up out of town and there was one bais yaakov girls high school. They did not have any rules in the handbook about anything anyone did outside of school. Plenty of girls didn't dress tzniusly, watched movies, were on social media, etc. outside of school, because that is what their family did.
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Chaya123




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 17 2020, 1:08 pm
Can anyone share where this school is located? Yes, I fully agree the high school should enforce such rules!
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 17 2020, 1:20 pm
Chaya123 wrote:
Can anyone share where this school is located? Yes, I fully agree the high school should enforce such rules!

It doesn’t matter where the school is, it doesn’t matter WHAT school it is. What matters is that a school made a rule, and followed through with a consequence.
Just my opinion.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 17 2020, 3:53 pm
amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:
You have a point but the school still reserves the right to manage how they see fit with the guidance of the rabbanim who give them hadracha. Ideally a
person sends to the school with the hashkafa they want.


I totally agree. If the school decides that no one is allowed to wear purple hair bows on Wednesdays. and the parents send there, then they need to make sure that on Wednesday the girls do not leave the house in purple hair bows. The parents should also check the backpacks of the girls to make sure that they are not sneaking purple hair bows and changing them in the school bathroom.

No matter what the rule, if you signed on to it, then you agreed to it. If you don't like the rule, change schools. It's not fair to the parents who strictly enforce the hair bow rule.

(Not being sarcastic here, just making a point that all rules need to be enforced, regardless.)
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amother
Burgundy


 

Post Mon, Feb 17 2020, 3:55 pm
The grocery store can also make a rule that its customers can't wear purple hair bows on Wednesdays, but they don't.
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amother
Floralwhite


 

Post Mon, Feb 17 2020, 4:22 pm
amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:
The grocery store can also make a rule that its customers can't wear purple hair bows on Wednesdays, but they don't.


Sure and they can suffer the consequences of people not shopping there. And a shul can decide to have mixed seating during tefillah. And so one and so forth. You can tell me to take my shoes off when I get into your house.

You can not equate a grocery store with a chinuch institution.
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groisamomma




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 17 2020, 4:27 pm
amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:
The grocery store can also make a rule that its customers can't wear purple hair bows on Wednesdays, but they don't.


Your point being...?

Nobody depends on the grocery store owner to help raise their kids. My children's schools are partners in their chinuch.
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amother
Dodgerblue


 

Post Mon, Feb 17 2020, 4:28 pm
Say what you want about the purple hair bows, leave pink alone because
ON WEDNESDAYS WE WEAR PINK!
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Ema of 5




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 17 2020, 5:28 pm
amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:
The grocery store can also make a rule that its customers can't wear purple hair bows on Wednesdays, but they don't.

And? If they would, you would then make a choice whether you would continue to shop there or not. If you do continue to shop there, you would have to “pay the consequence” if you wear a purple bow on Wednesday. You can’t just say “it’s a silly rule that shouldn’t be there in the first place, so I shouldn’t be consequences.”
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amother
Floralwhite


 

Post Mon, Feb 17 2020, 5:32 pm
amother [ Dodgerblue ] wrote:
Say what you want about the purple hair bows, leave pink alone because
ON WEDNESDAYS WE WEAR PINK!


So fetch!
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iluvy




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Feb 17 2020, 6:25 pm
amother [ Beige ] wrote:
I agree with everyone who is posting that if you choose a school, you have to listen to the school's rules. And if there is a rule you don't like or you think isn't fair for whatever reason, discuss it with the administration. And if you still don't agree, leave.

And to the point that the above isn't fair because people don't have a choice of schools, it seems to me that the only reason why a school makes rules about internet/smartphones/social media, etc. is BECAUSE there is a choice of schools. When a community gets big enough to have a second girls high school, at the end of the day the dividing line is usually hashkafa related. And when there are 3, 4, 5, 6 plus girls high schools, each school is catering to a certain hashkafic group so it sets rules and curriculum and everything else based on this. And I don't know what comes first, the chicken or the egg, but the parent body wants to send to a place where everyone aligns to their hashkafa, and so the whole system continues.

I could be wrong about that, it's just how it seems to me.
I grew up out of town and there was one bais yaakov girls high school. They did not have any rules in the handbook about anything anyone did outside of school. Plenty of girls didn't dress tzniusly, watched movies, were on social media, etc. outside of school, because that is what their family did.


What you're saying is not really how it works. A second high school will open up for a "frummer" crowd. Then the first high school will panic, because all their "frummer" families are leaving for the new school, leaving them with a modern parent body instead of the community mix they had before. So they adopt new rules - stricter rules - to reassure the yeshivish crowd that they are yeshivish too. Then the second school adopts the stricter rules rules the first school came up with, and adds some more of their own, which the first school promptly adopts as well. That's how rules like uniforms for preschoolers, or no bas mitzvahs, sped through the tristate area like a virus.
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amother
Dodgerblue


 

Post Mon, Feb 17 2020, 6:34 pm
iluvy wrote:
What you're saying is not really how it works. A second high school will open up for a "frummer" crowd. Then the first high school will panic, because all their "frummer" families are leaving for the new school, leaving them with a modern parent body instead of the community mix they had before. So they adopt new rules - stricter rules - to reassure the yeshivish crowd that they are yeshivish too. Then the second school adopts the stricter rules rules the first school came up with, and adds some more of their own, which the first school promptly adopts as well. That's how rules like uniforms for preschoolers, or no bas mitzvahs, sped through the tristate area like a virus.


You work on the assumption that more yeshivish is better. In the case of BY maybe, but not everyone feels that way. Some schools and families are very happy to not fight for the title of most Yeshivish. More Yeshivish does not equal more frum, being on a higher midrega, or being closer to Hashem.
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