Spinoff of idealistic young couples

amother

Mustard

Mon, Feb 17 2020, 5:05 pm

When I read these threads, people will say the system is not sustainable because eventually there is no longer a high income parent or grandparent.

Is this true because it seems as though there have been enough generations to determine whether eventually the money sources dry up in a family. In other words, are there families who were supported for several generations who have reached the end of the line?

amother

Vermilion

Mon, Feb 17 2020, 5:19 pm

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

My father is in his seventies. He was one of the first men who joined kollel instead of going to work. He eventually went to work and did well, and he's now semi-supporting all his kids, both those that work and those that are in kollel. My brothers are both in kollel for the long term.

My uncle is in his seventies. He is also one of the first to join kollel but he learned for much longer than my father did and he never actually got a good job. He has two daughters, only one is in kollel. I have no idea who is supporting his daughter, it's definitely not him (maybe a different family member is helping out but I have no idea).

I can go on and on, but you get the idea. The original kollel people are now in their seventies and eighties, and as far as I can tell most of their grandchildren are following in their footsteps. So the system is definitely not imploding any time soon.

My father says that 50 years ago they were saying that the kollel system is not sustainable and it's going to have to implode. Well, it's fifty years later, and if anything the movement has only grown.

amother

Mon, Feb 17 2020, 7:15 pm

amother [ Mustard ] wrote:

My moms parents supported 12(!!!) Children in kollel. The range from mid 50s to high 30s. Almost noone in the family was as successful financially as their father was. Most of my mothers brothers have a hard time supporting their children and only offer it to their daughters bec thats what is excepted when ur dd marries a "metzuyan" my grandparents had money and didnt discriminate between daughters and sons. Everyone got the same..

amother

Sienna

Mon, Feb 17 2020, 8:04 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

Fifty years ago, you worked one week to pay the monthly bills. Nowadays, 4 weeks of wages just about makes ends meet (hopefully). Times have changed a lot. Cost of living has skyrocketed and wages haven't kept up. Many families are literally going in debt, or just not paying bills like tuition, to keep this going.

Maybe it took longer than your parents' generation expected, but it sure is heading down the path of implosion. And it will implode. I can very assuredly state that, because it goes against the nature of the world, the way Hashem created it to run.

chestnut

Mon, Feb 17 2020, 8:40 pm

amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:

What do you think will happen when your generation Kollel families will be marrying off their kids? Will they be able to support them?

amother

Green

Mon, Feb 17 2020, 9:34 pm

Parents are for sure doing it to some capacity. They are fooling themselves into thinking their son is a “top boy”. The girls parents are happy to think their daughter is getting a “top boy” and the business of yeshivas are happy to be able to employ more rebbeim. I think we should go back a generation or two when there were really “top boys” and everyone else went to work or school then work. I never thought about this until I heard it from a posek’s wife.

amother

Tan

Mon, Feb 17 2020, 9:39 pm

amother [ Green ] wrote:

If only we can clean up "the streets" and go back in time.

Today boys are encouraged to stay in Bais Medrash not so much because they are top boys, rather to postpone "street exposure" of "going out in the big wide real world".

Now I know the responses. Hes shouldn't get married then, blah blah. Whatever.

amother

Green

Mon, Feb 17 2020, 9:47 pm

amother [ Tan ] wrote:

If the grown boys are lacking self control then keeping busy with school and work would be helpful. There’s for sure no reason to suppose a family should have their grown son be parented by his young wife because now he will have an ‘outlet’ and they don’t want to be the bad guys.

amother

Vermilion

Mon, Feb 17 2020, 10:04 pm

chestnut wrote:

What do you think will happen when your generation Kollel families will be marrying off their kids? Will they be able to support them?

Lol. My generation is already marrying off kids (I'm in my late 40's). I don't know how people manage, as I don't generally ask my friends nosy questions about their finances, and I'm not going to start now. But their children are marrying kollel, and their sons are staying in kollel. Some are frankly saying that they can give a little here and there but can't promise a monthly sum, but that's not the norm. Or so I gather.

amother

Vermilion

Mon, Feb 17 2020, 10:08 pm

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

What does this have to do anything? Why, did you think my grandparents supported their children? They did give a little here and there, but there was no real monthly support, AFAIK. They survived by living simply, going on programs and a little help here and there from their parents. IIRC, many of my friends lived in their grandparents (small) homes. They all squeezed in somehow.

What has changed is that support has become the norm, it didn't used to be that way. People got married and just figured it out one way or another. At least some people did that.

Anyway, I'm sure you're not in my community, because what I'm looking at is an explosion, not an implosion at all.