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When I become a politician 😂 (Welfare and Medicaid)
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notshanarishona




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 6:53 am
Why can't food stamps and Medicaid be changed that you can only get it if you are working or attempting to find work unless you are disabled . The way the system is now it encourages people to stay poor and live off the government. That to me is the biggest waste of tax dollars .
Example: My work offered me a 3k raise . That would kick us off food stamps and Medicaid. Then our Obama care plan would cost $1000 a month and we would be in the red . I told them I need either $12000 or nothing so I got nothing . 😪. And now we are still in the below 200% poverty level.

If we were to make $32,000 instead of $30,000 we would be $10000 out of our budget. That to me is insanity. There is no reasonable way to gradually move up our income to middle class .
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 6:57 am
notshanarishona wrote:
Why can't food stamps and Medicaid be changed that you can only get it if you are working or attempting to find work unless you are disabled . The way the system is now it encourages people to stay poor and live off the government. That to me is the biggest waste of tax dollars .
Example: My work offered me a 3k raise . That would kick us off food stamps and Medicaid. Then our Obama care plan would cost $1000 a month and we would be in the red . I told them I need either $12000 or nothing so I got nothing . 😪. And now we are still in the below 200% poverty level.

If we were to make $32,000 instead of $30,000 we would be $10000 out of our budget. That to me is insanity. There is no reasonable way to gradually move up our income to middle class .

Why can't you just have a healthcare system like Israel's, and then you could afford to lose food stamps without worrying that you would lose healthcare coverage as well.
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notshanarishona




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 7:08 am
I lived in Israel for 8 years . I would be fine with the Israeli health care system. 😁 but as it is now I can't afford to lose Medicaid. It's not just the premiums . It means paying $1-200 a month for regular medicines . It means paying $30-50 copay each time I go to the doctor . It means paying for each one of my sons 3x a week therapy. It's just not feasible any way I see it.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 7:20 am
banana123 wrote:
Why can't you just have a healthcare system like Israel's, and then you could afford to lose food stamps without worrying that you would lose healthcare coverage as well.


I just spent a month in Israel visiting my family. This is the longest time I've ever stayed. My general impression is that the average Israeli expects less materially than the average American. Much of Bernie's platform is about getting a health care system for America like what Israel has but I think that most Americans would view it as getting less, just like what happens when we Americans see that we have to sleep on smaller beds in Israel.
There seem to be lots of charities in EY to feed the poor but I don't think that those funds are used for soda pop and other yummy but detrimental foods. The government there doesn't supply it. Going hungry in EY may have a different definition then it does in America.
My understanding is that in EY, there is government dental insurance for children but adults pay out of pocket. The dental schools, like in America charge less but may be still too expensive for the poor. However, because dental care is far cheaper in EY than in America, travelers to EY sometimes have their dental work done there.
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 7:21 am
notshanarishona wrote:
I lived in Israel for 8 years . I would be fine with the Israeli health care system. 😁 but as it is now I can't afford to lose Medicaid. It's not just the premiums . It means paying $1-200 a month for regular medicines . It means paying $30-50 copay each time I go to the doctor . It means paying for each one of my sons 3x a week therapy. It's just not feasible any way I see it.

Right, I got that, and I think if the US adopted something similar to Israel's system then your problem would be solved and social mobility would actually mean something.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 7:35 am
banana123 wrote:
Right, I got that, and I think if the US adopted something similar to Israel's system then your problem would be solved and social mobility would actually mean something.


Americans would have to be willing to adjust. My American sister in law made Aliyah and felt that the doctors were good but when she was in the hospital, there was far less nursing care.
The pharmaceuticals are probably imported from Europe, unless they are made in EY so that the government can afford them and I don't know what isn't covered. Obviously many people in EY are attracted to alternative medicine so it could be that the medicines are not always effective.
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 7:42 am
southernbubby wrote:
Americans would have to be willing to adjust. My American sister in law made Aliyah and felt that the doctors were good but when she was in the hospital, there was far less nursing care.
The pharmaceuticals are probably imported from Europe, unless they are made in EY so that the government can afford them and I don't know what isn't covered. Obviously many people in EY are attracted to alternative medicine so it could be that the medicines are not always effective.

Americans need to decide if they want affordable and available health care, or if they want to maintain the status quo. If they want a change, any real change, they will need to adjust, it's unavoidable. I don't know what you mean by less nursing care - which department and for what etc.

Most medications are covered. Some are not, or still cost a lot.

The interest in alternative medicine isn't because medications don't work, it's just because that's what's fashionable right now and Israelis like natural stuff anyways. And it's a slow process, many Israelis are not big believers in alternative medicine at all.

The kupot are starting to offer alternative medicine (usually subsidized via their supplementary plans) but other than in Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, and their environs (as well as anti-vax bubbles and Anglo bubbles) the majority of people aren't really interested. I think alternative medicine has its advantages but Israelis need to get used to it.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 8:02 am
banana123 wrote:
Americans need to decide if they want affordable and available health care, or if they want to maintain the status quo. If they want a change, any real change, they will need to adjust, it's unavoidable. I don't know what you mean by less nursing care - which department and for what etc.

Most medications are covered. Some are not, or still cost a lot.

The interest in alternative medicine isn't because medications don't work, it's just because that's what's fashionable right now and Israelis like natural stuff anyways. And it's a slow process, many Israelis are not big believers in alternative medicine at all.

The kupot are starting to offer alternative medicine (usually subsidized via their supplementary plans) but other than in Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, and their environs (as well as anti-vax bubbles and Anglo bubbles) the majority of people aren't really interested. I think alternative medicine has its advantages but Israelis need to get used to it.


My sister in law had surgery and felt that the nurses were overwhelmed and had negative attitudes. One way to save money is to provide less nursing care and tell patients to bring a friend or relative to provide comfort because the nurses are too busy for that.

Americans are used to viewing hospitals as hotels for the sick. We are used to prompt service and complain about having to wait.

My granddaughter got sick at school and the school was concerned and called an ambulance. Because my DIL is nursing a baby, I went with the granddaughter to the hospital. The meal she was served was 2 pieces of bread, a small tub of cream cheese, a hard boiled egg, a small cucumber, and a small pudding. Americans would be livid at being served such a meal but I suppose that's supper for many an Israeli child. My DIL often serves that so her daughter was happy with it

How many Americans eat cream cheese sandwiches for dinner? This is why we who get gourmet food in hospitals balk at change.
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fleetwood




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 8:33 am
I spent the summer in Israel and the healthcare system there is not the greatest. Waiting weeks for appointments does not work for me.
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 8:38 am
southernbubby wrote:
My sister in law had surgery and felt that the nurses were overwhelmed and had negative attitudes. One way to save money is to provide less nursing care and tell patients to bring a friend or relative to provide comfort because the nurses are too busy for that.

Americans are used to viewing hospitals as hotels for the sick. We are used to prompt service and complain about having to wait.

My granddaughter got sick at school and the school was concerned and called an ambulance. Because my DIL is nursing a baby, I went with the granddaughter to the hospital. The meal she was served was 2 pieces of bread, a small tub of cream cheese, a hard boiled egg, a small cucumber, and a small pudding. Americans would be livid at being served such a meal but I suppose that's supper for many an Israeli child. My DIL often serves that so her daughter was happy with it

How many Americans eat cream cheese sandwiches for dinner? This is why we who get gourmet food in hospitals balk at change.


There is a serious shortage of nurses. I don't think it's a budget issue as much as a manpower issue.

It's funny that Americans view hospitals as hotels.

I don't see anything wrong with the supper. Plus, it's all kosher. Smile Look....Americans would be much happier with a McDonald's hamburger than the healthy supper your granddaughter got....

I understand that people balk at change, but if they want change then they need to understand that it requires change. Very Happy You can't say you want a better system if you're not willing to change. Or you can, but it's useless to beg for change and then reject it....
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 8:47 am
fleetwood wrote:
I spent the summer in Israel and the healthcare system there is not the greatest. Waiting weeks for appointments does not work for me.

Waiting for weeks for what? English-speaking specialty doctor?

It's true that sometimes you need to wait weeks (or months). But:
1) If it is urgent, your GP can push you in.

2) If it is important, and you are willing to travel a bit, you can often significantly shorten the wait.

3) A lot of the wait times are kupa- AND location-specific. Meaning, if you switch kupot or you live in a different area, then the waits are nonexistent. In Eilat you might have to wait months. In Ashdod you probably won't. But you might have to go to a clinic that's not in your neighborhood. As long as you choose (and stick with) a doctor with relatively short wait times, it doesn't really matter if that doctor isn't in your neighborhood, or even city. Personally I'm willing to travel half an hour each way for a good doctor who I don't have to pay out of pocket for. I understand if some people aren't willing, but understand that this is a choice. And if someone is consistently upset about wait times, they can always switch kupot - it's easy, fast, and rejection is illegal. And honestly if it is a specialty and once every few months, then you can spend the time traveling. It might not be fun, but it's doable. And for pediatricians and GPs there is usually no wait time.

4) If you need a specific specialty in a specific language in a specific location and won't give up on any of those - then yeah, you might have to wait. But it's like that all over the world.

5) If your doctor isn't available you can go to a walk-in clinic or another doctor with no penalties.

6) At any rate, I don't want to think what our medical bills would be in the US, I'm pretty sure insurance would've maxed out or refused to pay for the exact things that are costing us money. I'm so grateful that I have insurance that cannot refuse to pay or discriminate against us for things that are beyond our control, that I don't have to be afraid of huge co-pays every time my child needs medical attention, that we don't have to be afraid of a pay raise lest we lose Medicaid and be left with nothing or with expenses that would send us into the red, that I don't need to think twice about whether we can afford a particular test, or wonder if I should order medication from some iffy internet site.

Thank G-d we live in Israel and our and our children's basic medical needs are taken care of and we can go to the doctor whenever we need to. True the system isn't perfect and not everything is covered but most things are and IY"H we will never need the things that are not (and that would cost a fortune in the US as well so they're not really part of the equation anyways).
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 9:12 am
But basically, voting for change means higher taxes and cheaper care. Higher taxes may mean less McDonald's and more cream cheese and cucumber sandwiches. It may mean smaller houses, smaller beds, and more reliance on public transportation. It may mean more young people getting job skills via military duty because free college doesn't prepare for everything.
Basically Israelis do with less in order to spread the wealth a little more. Are selfish Americans willing to live with less in order to spread the wealth?
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Elfrida




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 9:28 am
Quote:
My granddaughter got sick at school and the school was concerned and called an ambulance. Because my DIL is nursing a baby, I went with the granddaughter to the hospital. The meal she was served was 2 pieces of bread, a small tub of cream cheese, a hard boiled egg, a small cucumber, and a small pudding. Americans would be livid at being served such a meal but I suppose that's supper for many an Israeli child. My DIL often serves that so her daughter was happy with it

How many Americans eat cream cheese sandwiches for dinner? This is why we who get gourmet food in hospitals balk at change


Cultural difference. Lunch is still considered the main meal, and that's when the hospital serve fleishics. Breakfast and supper are lighter milchic meals.

And I know one woman who just had to take six weeks off work for a broken bone. She paid a minimal amount - something like 100 NIS - for doctors and had six weeks off on full pay. She would have had a much harder time of it in America.
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 9:42 am
southernbubby wrote:
But basically, voting for change means higher taxes and cheaper care. Higher taxes may mean less McDonald's and more cream cheese and cucumber sandwiches. It may mean smaller houses, smaller beds, and more reliance on public transportation. It may mean more young people getting job skills via military duty because free college doesn't prepare for everything.
Basically Israelis do with less in order to spread the wealth a little more. Are selfish Americans willing to live with less in order to spread the wealth?

It doesn't have to mean higher taxes, it can simply mean rethinking where we put the tax money.

Israelis do with less because Israelis are less materialistic in general (though that's changing, unfortunately).

The question is, are selfish Americans willing to officially give Big Brother what it needs to ensure heath care for everyone, or do they insist on sticking their heads in the sand pretending Big Brother doesn't have access to anything (as if random people on the internet don't have access as well)?
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Deep




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 9:47 am
notshanarishona wrote:
Why can't food stamps and Medicaid be changed that you can only get it if you are working or attempting to find work unless you are disabled . The way the system is now it encourages people to stay poor and live off the government. That to me is the biggest waste of tax dollars .
Example: My work offered me a 3k raise . That would kick us off food stamps and Medicaid. Then our Obama care plan would cost $1000 a month and we would be in the red . I told them I need either $12000 or nothing so I got nothing . 😪. And now we are still in the below 200% poverty level.

If we were to make $32,000 instead of $30,000 we would be $10000 out of our budget. That to me is insanity. There is no reasonable way to gradually move up our income to middle class .


This is basically the problem with the current US model. It is excruciatingly difficult to break out of poverty.
The more "socialist" models in other Western societies generally allow citizens to move up the ranks of economic success while receiving the economic support they need at each stage.
In Canada, for example, the primary social benefit is the Child Care monthly allowance. Parents who earn under 35000$, receive the entire benefit. As your income increases, your benefit decreases proportionally. Health care is universal. Unemployment Insurance requires actively participating in job training and job search events. There is no incentive to stay poor. You never lose out by climbing the income ladder.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 9:52 am
banana123 wrote:
It doesn't have to mean higher taxes, it can simply mean rethinking where we put the tax money.

Israelis do with less because Israelis are less materialistic in general (though that's changing, unfortunately).

The question is, are selfish Americans willing to officially give Big Brother what it needs to ensure heath care for everyone, or do they insist on sticking their heads in the sand pretending Big Brother doesn't have access to anything (as if random people on the internet don't have access as well)?


My son who lives in Israel was telling me about a politician who wants to fine or tax couples who have more than 4 children because he is worried about population growth and possibility the ability of the government to sustain these programs so there is a concern. I did see a few high end baby carriages in Israel so these things are desired but I wonder how many people could actually afford them.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 9:58 am
Elfrida wrote:
Quote:
My granddaughter got sick at school and the school was concerned and called an ambulance. Because my DIL is nursing a baby, I went with the granddaughter to the hospital. The meal she was served was 2 pieces of bread, a small tub of cream cheese, a hard boiled egg, a small cucumber, and a small pudding. Americans would be livid at being served such a meal but I suppose that's supper for many an Israeli child. My DIL often serves that so her daughter was happy with it

How many Americans eat cream cheese sandwiches for dinner? This is why we who get gourmet food in hospitals balk at change


Cultural difference. Lunch is still considered the main meal, and that's when the hospital serve fleishics. Breakfast and supper are lighter milchic meals.

And I know one woman who just had to take six weeks off work for a broken bone. She paid a minimal amount - something like 100 NIS - for doctors and had six weeks off on full pay. She would have had a much harder time of it in America.


Americans are used to menu choices in hospitals for every meal so they can have 3 hot meat meals a day if they choose. Again, they might have to accept fewer choices and adopt a more European attitude toward heavy eating.
They entire culture would probably have to change to do health care like what is available in EY. I am not sure what the government can cut back on in order to give the money to health care but life as we know it would probably have to change.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 9:58 am
banana123, I'm with you 100%.

I have several chronic illnesses, and I've been told more than once that I am "medically complex". I need several specialists to coordinate my care, plus a social worker. Israel has been absolutely wonderful for that, and I cannot complain. If it takes me a month to see a rheumatologist, or if I have to take the bus for 45 minutes, then so be it. In the end it still balances out in my favor.

If you start putting conditions on who can get benefits in America, you're going to really upset the Democrat voting base. They love their freebies, and the more you promise them, the more loyal the voter.

As long as Democrats are keeping the benefits flowing, you will never be able to break out of the low income bracket without taking a huge loss in other ways. The only way out, as you've calculated, is if you have a HUGE increase in income, and can afford the adjustment.
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pause




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 10:16 am
Deep wrote:
This is basically the problem with the current US model. It is excruciatingly difficult to break out of poverty.
The more "socialist" models in other Western societies generally allow citizens to move up the ranks of economic success while receiving the economic support they need at each stage.
In Canada, for example, the primary social benefit is the Child Care monthly allowance. Parents who earn under 35000$, receive the entire benefit. As your income increases, your benefit decreases proportionally. Health care is universal. Unemployment Insurance requires actively participating in job training and job search events. There is no incentive to stay poor. You never lose out by climbing the income ladder.


This. There is no edging out. To be eligible for Medicaid (all expenses paid health insurance) we can earn a max of about 40k annually. Once we go a dollar more than that, we can have Child Health Plus for the kids, but health insurance for the couple is about 1k per month in addition to co-pays, deductibles, etc. It's a very big leap to afford.
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banana123




 
 
 
 

Post  Thu, Feb 20 2020, 10:24 am
southernbubby wrote:
My son who lives in Israel was telling me about a politician who wants to fine or tax couples who have more than 4 children because he is worried about population growth and possibility the ability of the government to sustain these programs so there is a concern. I did see a few high end baby carriages in Israel so these things are desired but I wonder how many people could actually afford them.

Please ask your son who this politician is. I practically breathe news and have not seen this.

It would never fly anyways, by the way. No way.

Plus you get free beit hachlama from baby number four, supplementary insurance from the kupa is often free from baby number four, etc.

I would love to see your son's source for that.
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