Where do you struggle in your emunah?

PinkFridge

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 2:59 pm

amother [ Turquoise ] wrote:

I feel that we are so desperate to make sense out of things and identify hashem as a loving father that we can take almost any awful situation and twist it around to make it appear as if it makes sense.

Here's a story. I don't know if it would have been my reaction, but it's something to think about: Rebbetzin Kramer of Holy Woman fame told Sara Yoheved Rigler that Auschwitz wasn't a bad place. SYR was sure she heard wrong, or maybe Rebbetzin Kramer had dementia. Then she explained herself. As long as she was in a place where she could do Hashem's will, then by definition it wasn't a bad place.

PinkFridge

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 3:03 pm

amother [ Burlywood ] wrote:

can anyone list helpful classical seforim?? Not necessarily directly on Emuna. Books that strengthen
faith.

Daily Tanya translated into English by Rabbis Levy and Sholom Weinberg helped me intensely.

So did Shaarei Tshuva by Rabbi Yona Gironda. The genius behind this seemingly simplistic sefer makes my belief in Yiddishkeit stronger every time I read a page.

Making Sense of Suffering by Rabbi Yitzchak Kirzner, zt"l.
Rabbi Menachem Nissel has a shiur called Understanding Unanswered Prayers.
There are some wonderful biographies. To Remain A Jew by Rabbi Yitzchak Zilber, zt"l. Rav Yankel Galinsky zt"l' bio. Others. These were people who went through a lot and both experienced it and emerged joyfully.

small bean

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 4:00 pm

I want to try answer the concept of struggling with a compassionate God. (Im not good with words, so we will see if I can explain clearly).

The world was created for a purpose and each person is put on this world to get from point A to point B. In order to get from point A to point B, you need to change and grow in certain ways. Change comes through struggles. The struggles are in essence compassion because they are bringing you to the end goal.

An example, you're really poor. You can't afford food, the electric is about to be shut off in your house. You are under tremendous stress. You look around, what can you make for dinner before the kids get home from school. All you find is some beans and rice. You make what you think is a decent supper and the kids walk in the door, smell it and all start yelling and complaining. How you react right now, is going to be a stepping stone to get to point b. Even if you scream right back and everything falls apart in your house, that is a stepping stone to point B.

So you can think, where is this compassionate God, doesnt he see my suffering. That in itself is why we struggle, so you can look for him in the most difficult moments and connect. That connection is the compassion to the struggle.

I know it is easier said than done to live your life embracing struggles and looking at them as a point to an end goal but in reality that's what they are.

small bean

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 5:56 pm

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

But where did the need for suffering in order to accomplish the goal come from?

There is a difference between a struggle and suffering. Sufffering is a reaction. I didn't say suffer. It is a choice to suffer from your struggles. I know easier said than done to choose to embrace and not suffer through s
A tough struggle.

Last edited by small bean on Tue, Feb 25 2020, 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Firebrick

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 6:49 pm

small bean wrote:

There is a diggetence between a struggle and suffering. Sufffering is a reaction. I didn't say suffer. It is a choice to suffer from your struggles. I know easier said than done to choose to embrace and not suffer through s tough struggle.

It’s a choice to suffer from struggles?

Wow, I have no response other than I hope you never tell that to someone IRL.

small bean

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 9:55 pm

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

It’s a choice to suffer from struggles?

Wow, I have no response other than I hope you never tell that to someone IRL.

Yes it is a choice. Of course you don't tell someone suffering they are making a choice. But there are countless people going through the same struggles and having different reactions. Some suffer and some don't.

This is not judging. This is just a fact.

Also a struggle doesnt have to mean bad. You can struggle with making dinner at night. You can struggle with not yelling. You can struggle with what to wear. You can also struggle with illness, with financial pressure etc.

Every persons struggles are taylor made for them to get from one point to the other point. That is the point of life.

To clarify, I never used the word suffer because God doesn't make you suffer. That is a very simple outlook. It is deeper then that.

I always tell my kids, you are responsible for how you feel, you are not responsible all the time for the circumstance you are in. Hashem puts you in circumstances that are sometimes really tough, how you feel about your circumstance is on you.

And this is real emunah. When you have no money for example and you're sitting at home, spacing out and saying it is all for the best, it is not emunah. Emunah is taking the struggle, confronting it and saying hashem gave me this struggle, what can I do to deal with it. How can I turn this struggle into growth?

I know it easier said than done. We all struggle. We all have a hard time accepting the struggle. We all have a hard time saying this is tough, but I'm stronger than it. And we all have hard time confronting our fears and accepting the circumstance.

Mommyg8

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 10:06 pm

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

It’s a choice to suffer from struggles?

Wow, I have no response other than I hope you never tell that to someone IRL.

Yes it's a choice. My mother was paralyzed. She chose to thank Hashem for all the good she had. She had struggles that I can't even imagine but she never suffered. Because she chose not to. Yes, suffering can be a choice.

amother

Amber

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 10:25 pm

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

So your point is that the goal of suffering is to bring man closer to G-d?

WOuldn't being the recipient of blessings and peace accomplish the same goal?

Has anyone mentioned Viktor Frankl's book, Man's Search for Meaning yet? I highly recommend it. I won't attempt to do justice to his writings/\ideas, you really need to read it. It's an "easy" accessible read, with many layers to it. Highly recommended and often quoted by very respected well known rabbanim.

amother

Firebrick

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 10:43 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

I don’t know your mother but it’s more than likely that she did suffer and did a great job covering it up.

And let me give you some unsolicited advice.
Never tell a person that suffering is a choice.
It’s beyond cruel.

Mommyg8

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 10:46 pm

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

You know something, you don't know my mother. And to be honest, you are the cruel one here. Just saying, anonymous amother.

amother

Amber

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:15 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

You know something, you don't know my mother. And to be honest, you are the cruel one here. Just saying, anonymous amother.

I agree with you on this.
Some people are able to rise above. There are some extraordinarily strong people. I admire and stand in awe of them.

But. Some people are not, in the moment. And they are suffering. And I don't believe they should be made to feel like it's their fault they are suffering on top of everything else. I can think of a very bad medical incident in my own life when I was a teenager. Looking back on it now, I see how it changed and shaped me. I learned a lot about myself and human nature of other s even if it took years for me to fully process. But at the time it was excruciating, I cried from the discomfort every single day for probably a year until the healing was advanced (I read a medical research article a few years ago that said a certain percentage of people who undergo this either commit suicide or have a nervous breakdown. I felt very validated). Yes, I was suffering. No it's not because I chose to suffer.

ChayaGee

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:26 pm

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

I voted conception bc that's what I'm dealing with right now, but honestly, your post made me think.
Of course I believe in G-d and that he runs the world, but how are we so sure that Judaism is the right way to serve him? Not that I want to be anything else, but just, every other religion out there thinks that their way is the best.
How do we know for a fact that ours is?

Because it is "OURS"!!!

amother

White

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:27 pm

amother [ Firebrick ] wrote:

So your point is that the goal of suffering is to bring man closer to G-d?

WOuldn't being the recipient of blessings and peace accomplish the same goal?

Nahma d'chsufa, the bread of shame. There's a feeling of inner satisfaction that's not there when gifts are bestowed on us.