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Forum -> Working Women
How Much Can a Professional Mommy Make?
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dorothy1




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 7:44 am
While I agree that OP is probably underpaid, I am certain that salaries of 100k+ are atypical for part time work in Lakewood. Apparently it exists, but I’ve worked in at few of the larger employers And discussed this with many neighbors etc.

Director of marketing can also vary. Some work for corporations with hundreds of employees and manage a department and a budget in the millions. Others work at a company with 10-15 people and are the whole marketing department with a budget in the thousands.


Also, 5 years of experience is not a lot.
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boysrus




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 8:05 am
heres a link to webpage that tells you the average salary for a director of marketing in NJ
it says $99k

https://www.indeed.com/salarie.....ersey
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amother
Purple


 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 8:12 am
boysrus wrote:
heres a link to webpage that tells you the average salary for a director of marketing in NJ
it says $99k

https://www.indeed.com/salarie.....ersey


Full time . So 3/4 time would be 75k.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 8:15 am
amother [ Purple ] wrote:
Full time . So 3/4 time would be 75k.


That's not really how salaries work though.
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amother
Green


 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 8:19 am
amother [ Purple ] wrote:
Full time . So 3/4 time would be 75k.


Not really.
Plus a director of marketing would have years of experience before having that position.
It’s unclear if op has 5 years total marketing experience or has many years marketing experience PLUS 5 years of director of marketing.
Anyways salaries in small heimish companies that allow you to work part time, give off Chol HaMoed and Eruv yom tov and flex time will not pay as much as a large corporation. They just don’t have the funds.
If you want salaries like that you need a degree and to move on.
5 years work experience typically gives you 10 - 15 vacation days total + 5 sick days in corporate America. If you are getting more paid days that is a benfit.
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amother
Magenta


 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 10:31 am
amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:
While I may not give you the validation you want like some of the other posters throwing around big numbers (kudos to them, but realize they are quite far and few between).

Some questions to think about- is the company able to pay you a much bigger salary? Often ppl getting paid well are working in very successful/ profitable industries.

5 years experience is not a lot, what tangible skills do you have that would be hard to replace with a beginning employee? Focus on those.

Also, try to stay more professional at any price, having to bring in your husband is an indicator that there’s a lack of professionalism in your role that would make it hard to argue a raise, by some heimish ppl that’s how it will always be but you can try...

I don’t know what area you’re working in or what your skills are worth, but wanted to balance the picture here. We have an office admin (in Manhatten Smile working 35 hours for more than 5 years she’s still not making the kind of numbers people are throwing around here.


And I work In a similar job description in Manhattan ~35 hrs a week, for less than 5 years, and I am making around the numbers people are "throwing" around.

I do agree they are few and far between.

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:
Agreed on all counts. I should have been clearer, our admin is not a Secratary and does amazing work. The reality of both the business at this time (not doing well) and the fact that she is replaceable with about a year of training means that we are not willing to pay past a certain amount.

My (unclear) point was to try and see what skills she brings to the table that are hard to replace, put a name and numbers to the value she brings to the company. At the same time be realistic about what the company can afford to pay her- they may not be able to afford/ want to spend as much as she is worth and then that’s a choice she’ll have to make.



I agree with your last paragraph.
The skills I bring to the table and the value I bring to the company definitely contributes to my situation
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mlc




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 10:43 am
Everyone is entitled to time off. The reason for time off is irrelevant. That said, the fact that you are a frum female who has kids is irrelevant unless you do take a considerable amount of time off that exceeds company limits.

I will add though, that in general, most people without a degree wouldn't be making close to 60k. In general a job like yours would in fact require a degree. Lakewood does tend to have a lot of opportunity for people without degrees.

It might be a good idea for you to consider other options and see if anyone has anything better to offer. If you find a better offer, you can ask your boss to march it . Otherwise take the new position Smile

Let us know what happens!
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dancingqueen




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 10:51 am
There are obviously different cultural dynamics at heimish offices, but degree aside, calling yourself a “professional mommy”, bantering with your boss about a raise instead of setting a formal meeting, and bring in your dh!!! to ask for a raise would all be considered very unprofessional in a regular corporate setting, FYI.
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:29 am
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I don't believe he thinks he doesn't have to pay me more, and he knows he can't hire another woman to replace me at my salary. I think he's unknowingly trying to convince me that I don't deserve to be paid more even though he knows, subconsciously, that I absolutely do. He's scared of just how much I can demand. Or he can't afford me but needs me nonetheless.

Whatever the case is, once I figure out a reasonable asking price, I can gauge his reaction and decide if it's worth my while to stay or not.


It seems you know the value you bring to his business and you are underpaid. It could be
that boss cannot afford to pay you more. Maybe you can negotiate for less hours instead of
more pay. But it sounds like you need more $$$, not more time off.
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amother
Orange


 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:32 am
amother [ Purple ] wrote:
Full time . So 3/4 time would be 75k.


Nope. Part time cuts your salary to a fraction of it.
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miami85




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 12:07 pm
I am a "professional" with 2 masters' degrees, but in a low-paying city and I dont' make $60k--though if I were in NY I would probably make about 1.5-twice my current salary, some places I would make 6 figures. The plus-side in my current job is that I more or less make my own schedule and I can "float around" as I'm needed for my family--to go to chumash/chanuka plays, take kids on field trips, go home to nurse my baby, walk my toddler to his babysitting group. Thus, it has its benefits, though I cry at the actual amount sometimes. My husband works for a frum company remotely in a non-degreed position but its a NY-based salary and makes about the same as me.
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amother
Indigo


 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 12:08 pm
dancingqueen wrote:
There are obviously different cultural dynamics at heimish offices, but degree aside, calling yourself a “professional mommy”, bantering with your boss about a raise instead of setting a formal meeting, and bring in your dh!!! to ask for a raise would all be considered very unprofessional in a regular corporate setting, FYI.

I couldn't agree more.
OP, if you decide to accept an offer from a regular corporate (even many frum ones) office type, please be aware of the cultural norms for expected professional behavior. Or you will really struggle.
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amother
Babypink


 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 12:58 pm
In one of my first jobs, I was making 24k. My boss took his family on a trip to Paris and rented a nice apartment for them there. I was fuming - he pays me so little and then takes his family on such a nice trip.

Obviously the two are not at all related - my salary and his personal spending. He was only paying me what the market would bear, I.e what I would stay for.

I also engaged in the discussion - a job in Manhattan would pay me 80k, and they were like - no, it wouldn't, you should be happy to have this job ...

Then I left, and went to Manhattan, and got a job making 80k. And the hours weren't different, and I still got home 2 hrs before Shabbos, and everything was fine. And by the way, there is a lot of remote working in Manhattan these days - almost everyone where I am works remotely one day a week.

So basically, we are prisoners of our own imaginations. We build prisons and hold the keys, but won't come out.

Many bosses have told me that they won't raise a worker (or would raise by a few thousand) but if they had to hire a new person they would need to pay double.

Lastly, when my babysitter complained about her vacation days, I said - this is a free market. Feel free to go to the playground and chat with the mothers and get a better gig. Even though she was amazing, I wasn't going to build a prison for her or allow her to build her own. That goes against what I believe.
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#BestBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 1:11 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
[EDITED FOR CLARIFICATION]

My boss likes to think there's no way that I, as a "yiddishe Mommy," could ever make over $60,000 in an office without getting a full time job in a non Jewish company in Manhattan. Part of his cheshbon in saying this is that Mommies need to take off for chumash plays, sick days, Chol HaMoed, Purim, etc. (My husband takes off all of the above besides chumash plays, which are not yet relevant for our young family.) Also, because sometimes we go on maternity leave. In other words, we're not as reliable. On the flip side, he prefers Jewish women over non-jewish women who are more difficult to work with, and perhaps also refrains from hiring men because women are better multitaskers. So I'm not sure how this all balances out, but he's still sticking to the narrative that "no Lakewood Mommy who doesn't have a degree or her own business is making over $60K."

I work as a Director of Marketing and bring a ton of value to my company. I have nearly 5 years experience and work 30 hour weeks.

What's your opinion on this?


Boss refrains from hiring men because he can get away with underpaying women while men will be quicker to demand raises and jump ship if they don't get them. This trend is seen in secular world - women are more "eidel" and less likely than men to ask for raises or even ask for high salary at initial hire.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 1:19 pm
amother [ Orange ] wrote:
Nope. Part time cuts your salary to a fraction of it.


Is this true even when the hours are 3/4 of full time? That doesn't seem fair - I get the same amount of work done in less time, because I know I need to leave. Of course there would be additional benefit if I stayed longer, but not exponentially...
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 1:23 pm
amother [ Indigo ] wrote:
I couldn't agree more.
OP, if you decide to accept an offer from a regular corporate (even many frum ones) office type, please be aware of the cultural norms for expected professional behavior. Or you will really struggle.


I don't think this is fair. I was very clear that "professional mommy" is my boss's attitude, NOT mine. I was also very clear that I never "bantered" with him - I had a reasonable discussion in which he freaked out and I maintained my professionalism.

And as for bringing in my husband, I did mention that this was only he bullied me to the point where I was ready to leave simply because I was young and couldn't stand up to him. I wouldn't do it now, and I wouldn't have done it then if the situation was different - I only did it because he knows my husband and he didn't seem to know how to talk to me like a mentch.

Ladies, please, I know how to be professional. This isn't the discussion at hand.
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Mommyg8




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 1:42 pm
dancingqueen wrote:
There are obviously different cultural dynamics at heimish offices, but degree aside, calling yourself a “professional mommy”, bantering with your boss about a raise instead of setting a formal meeting, and bring in your dh!!! to ask for a raise would all be considered very unprofessional in a regular corporate setting, FYI.


It's very sad, but in my world that's what would be necessary. I would need to bring DH into a discussion in order to be heard. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.
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amother
Khaki


 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 2:09 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
I don't think this is fair. I was very clear that "professional mommy" is my boss's attitude, NOT mine. I was also very clear that I never "bantered" with him - I had a reasonable discussion in which he freaked out and I maintained my professionalism.

And as for bringing in my husband, I did mention that this was only he bullied me to the point where I was ready to leave simply because I was young and couldn't stand up to him. I wouldn't do it now, and I wouldn't have done it then if the situation was different - I only did it because he knows my husband and he didn't seem to know how to talk to me like a mentch.

Ladies, please, I know how to be professional. This isn't the discussion at hand.


OP - bottom line is - your boss is incorrect.
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amother
Copper


 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 2:12 pm
Yeah .. Involving your DH under any circumstance whatsoever — even if your boss is completely mistreating you — would be completely unprofessional in the “real” world . You’d go to HR to try to fix it or leave . As long as you realize that.
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amother
OP


 

Post Tue, Feb 25 2020, 2:15 pm
Mommyg8 wrote:
It's very sad, but in my world that's what would be necessary. I would need to bring DH into a discussion in order to be heard. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.


Thanks for the validation! Salut
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