My son's don't go to shul. Dh and I argue alot about it

amother

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 4:48 pm

My boys are 12 and 10. We live about a 15/20 walk away from the shul that we daven in. They used to sometimes walk together about an hour after dh left so they weren't even there for the whole time. Now they never go, they cbb. They prefer to stay in their pjs playing football, relaxing etc. It really bothers me! Dh said that we can't force yiddishkeit on them which I agree with but he always says 'you just want them out the house' bla bla. And whilst my shabbos mornings would be a whole lot quieter and more relaxing if they were out that's not the reason. I want them to do what's right, go where they belong.

What would you do??

BetsyTacy

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 5:00 pm

You said you live a 15/20 minute walk from the shul that you daven in. Is there a shul where you usually don't daven that is also a reasonable distance from your house that maybe they have friends there or some type of youth minyan or some reason that make them more interested in going to shul?

amother

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 5:04 pm

BetsyTacy wrote:

Yes we do have one quite a bit nearer but my dh really doesn't want it to be his main shul. It's just not his crowd. It's older more Englishy men there. Very nice people, we just don't feel like we belong there as such. My boys do go (plus my younger son most weeks) later on for mincha and maariv on shabbos to this nearer shul. Is bribing kids to go to shul really bad? Dh doesn't think it's a good idea. We used to and it did work but they have to want to go for themselves and no one else or money or whatever we bribe them with...

amother

Linen

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 5:09 pm

I personally feel that bribing for good things is fine, just preface it with mitoch lo lishma ba lishma, going to minyan is very important, but I realize it's not so easy for you to appreciate it right now, so I'm offering this to make it easier for you, but my hope is that in the end you'll get used to doing it & appreciate it for itself.

BetsyTacy

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 5:11 pm

It's funny. I think that there are things that people do for their kids that are too much and will just help them become entitled and selfish. And yet with this one I think it is important that kids, especially boys, want to go to shul. If your husband won't switch shuls most of the time just for these few years, could you take them? If it is important enough to be upset about, it might be important enough to do something about. It would be nice if your husband would do that, but if he doesnt, can't you? Even if you have other children who are too young to stay in shul, just walking your boys to the nearer shul shows them that you think it is important. Obviously if you live where you have younger kids and no eruv, we will have to think of some other options to make it work.

esuss

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 5:48 pm

You should definitely reward them for going. It's a prize not a bribe. Eventually they will outgrow the prize and they will want to continue going on their own. Start by rewarding them for just going to mincha in the closer shul and then build on that. I did this and it worked.

amother

Cyan

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 6:04 pm

I would reward them also.
In my shul, the boys also don't go often and it's part of the culture but it's not because we all approve. It's because the parents were once forced to go and didn't like it so now their boys aren't going. So my boy doesn't want to go either because his friends don't go.
But my DH invites him to go and he does go willingly but he doesn't jump up and go on his own because he feels it's his duty. He'd rather not.

BetsyTacy

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 6:38 pm

If everyone gets up, gets dressed in Shabbos clothes and goes to shul then hanging around in pjs in not an option. I can see how it would be harder if the older boys see their siblings lounging around. If the 4 year old also gets up and dressed and walks to shul, it's a family outing and what is done. I agree that getting there late is fine to start, but your son is 12. Do you and your husband and son expect him to go at 13? If so, wouldn't a gradual transition be easier?

DVOM

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 6:48 pm

My 11 year old son has zero interest in going to shul on shabbos. I really get him. This is the one day a week that he can stay in PJs, read, build Lego to his hearts content. Me and his younger brothers are all in PJs, lounging around, shmoozing, eating bowl after bowl of shabbos cereal...why would he want to go?

What we started doing is all of us getting dressed and going to shul. We go at around 10:30, so we all have time to mooch around, play Monopoly, read, and we still make it for some of davening most weeks. My husband is the candy man and he makes sure to have really good nosh waiting for shul goers. This had been working well for us this year.

To be honest, for this particular kid davening consists of spacing out while holding on to a siddur for a bit. Davening holds very little meaning for him. Interestingly, my 8 and 7 year olds take davening very seriously and connect with the singing and ritual of shul. We've discussed this with our rabbi. Our job as parents is to make sure Mr 11 can read Hebrew and has exposure to shul davening, and to lead by example. I've been working a lot on my own davening (my husband doesn't need to work on this. He goes to daven like I'd settle in for a long phone conversation with my best friend. I'm in awe, and so happy that he sets this example for our boys).

amother

Scarlet

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 7:10 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Is bribing kids to go to shul really bad? Dh doesn't think it's a good idea. We used to and it did work but they have to want to go for themselves and no one else or money or whatever we bribe them with...

This is not bribery. This is compensation.

To bribe is to slip someone a gift so that they act in an unjust/dishonest/illegal way.

To compensate is to pay someone for goods or services.

You compensate the grocer, the guy who mows your lawn, the electrical company, etc. for what they do/provide. You don’t “bribe” them.

Similarly, if you are expecting a 10 year old to walk 15 minutes each way in all sorts of weather to daven instead of playing football, it is my opinion that they deserve some sort of compensation for the effort, willpower, and actions.

amother

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 7:12 pm

BetsyTacy wrote:

Is the 12 year old preparing for his bar mitzvah? Going to some of his slightly older friends' bar mitzvahs? What do their friends do?

Yes he's started preparing the Sedra leining with dh but non of his friends have turned 13 yet. They're 11 going on 12 this year. My son is one of the older boys from his class. He's born November but most of his friends go to shul..

amother

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 7:13 pm

DVOM wrote:

Wow you're an amazing mum for getting out and about then to walk your son.

amother

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 7:16 pm

BetsyTacy wrote:

Yes gradual is definitely better but he says he doesn't want to go even late. They used to go in the summer more so I'm hoping they start again soon. He said he'll start going 6 months before his barmi so after pesach but we'll see. It needs to become a habit, routine. Now its lounging around, playing and eating nosh.

amother

Tue, Feb 25 2020, 7:18 pm

amother [ Scarlet ] wrote:

Yes of course but do I tell them 'if you go I'll give you x' or do I reward them IF and when they do go on their own? If after once of rewarding afterwards then theyll expect a reward so they may be more willing to go. Does it matter which way around it goes? Thanks