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How not to Lose Friends over Politics During 2020 Election
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malki2




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 6:44 pm
Some good advice for all of us (including myself).

How to not lose friends over politics during 2020 election

By Karol Markowicz January 19, 2020


With the election bearing down on us, how can we maintain friendships with people who have different political opinions?

For one thing, don’t take any lessons from Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren or their supporters.

Tensions between the Vermont socialist and the Massachusetts sorta-socialist exploded at last week’s CNN debate, after Sanders flatly denied reports that he’d told Warren that a woman couldn’t win in 2020. Warren demurred and said she and Sanders are friends. But ­afterward, she refused to shake his hand, and a hot mic caught her ­accusing Sanders of calling her a “liar on national TV.”

Their supporters ­immediately went for each other’s throats. Sanders fans tweeted emojis of a snake at Warren voters. Warren voters cried sexism. It got ugly fast. And these are people ostensibly on the same side. What’s going to happen when the general election comes around?

We know what’s going to happen. Friendships will fray and possibly snap. The election will happen, someone will win and some segment of the country won’t be able to process the loss of its preferred candidate in a healthy way.

People will lash out. We will have to read a thousand “what to say to your family on Thanksgiving” articles about how to be civil to people who share your blood but not your opinion on Medicare for All.

“But President Trump’s not civil!” or “Warren is a liar!” the arguments will go when people are called out on their nastiness. OK. If you dislike Trump or Warren, why are you emulating their behavior?

So what can you do to stay on good terms with the people in your life?

First, keep your politics off Facebook. Not one mind has ever been changed by anyone’s political ranting on any social-media platform, especially not Facebook. All such arguments accomplish is to divide old friends. Facebook is simply not made for arguments. You inevitably end up getting into a fight with the co-worker of your best friend from middle school.

A Pew poll in August found that “two-thirds of users (67 percent) say that discussing politics on ­social media with people they disagree with usually leads them to find out they have ‘less in common politically’ than they expected.” Common ground gets harder to find ­behind profile pictures and quippy responses.

The same Pew poll showed that nearly half of adult social-media ­users feel “worn out” by the “number of political posts and discussions they see on social media.” Post pictures of your vacation and your cat and maybe sometimes your sushi. Don’t post about politics.

The second thing you can do is to remember that your friends, even those whose opinions you find ­repellent, want what’s best for our nation. If you try to hold fast to that baseline assumption, it gets much easier not to lose a friendship over political disagreements.

I find Sanders’ ideas to be illogical, backward and tied to a political philosophy that has failed every time and everywhere it has been tried. But I know my friends who support him think he will herald a fairer society. They sincerely ­believe his is the way forward. Oppose them at the ballot box, not over dinner or on your Facebook page.

Finally, remember that politicians aren’t your family members, and they aren’t your friends. Ideologues want power; your loved ones want love. Don’t lose your actual family or friends over politicos. Similarly, the people on your political side shouldn’t be your “tribe.” Your ­actual tribe are the people who know you and care about you, not just people who vote your way.

Your tribe are your neighbors, the people at your church, the other parents at your kids’ school. They aren’t the people raving on social media on the same side as you. Remember that and go into the 2020 election keeping your friendships a high priority. There will be other elections: Let’s all try to save some friends for 2024 and beyond.
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icedcoffee




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 7:00 pm
So according to this author, the way to not lose friends over politics is...

1. Immediately attack the progressive liberal candidates
2. Pat self on the back for suggesting people don't post about politics online, while posting this online
3. Make sure to slip in another attack against the progressive liberal candidates before you finish
4. Fill your own Facebook and Twitter with multiple posts every day attacking Democrats and the left.

Just.........why.
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fleetwood




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 7:06 pm
icedcoffee wrote:
So according to this author, the way to not lose friends over politics is...

1. Immediately attack the progressive liberal candidates
2. Pat self on the back for suggesting people don't post about politics online, while posting this online
3. Make sure to slip in another attack against the progressive liberal candidates before you finish
4. Fill your own Facebook and Twitter with multiple posts every day attacking Democrats and the left.

Just.........why.


Yeah,it was kind of funny.
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Cheiny




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 7:45 pm
malki2 wrote:
Some good advice for all of us (including myself).

How to not lose friends over politics during 2020 election

By Karol Markowicz January 19, 2020


With the election bearing down on us, how can we maintain friendships with people who have different political opinions?

For one thing, don’t take any lessons from Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren or their supporters.

Tensions between the Vermont socialist and the Massachusetts sorta-socialist exploded at last week’s CNN debate, after Sanders flatly denied reports that he’d told Warren that a woman couldn’t win in 2020. Warren demurred and said she and Sanders are friends. But ­afterward, she refused to shake his hand, and a hot mic caught her ­accusing Sanders of calling her a “liar on national TV.”

Their supporters ­immediately went for each other’s throats. Sanders fans tweeted emojis of a snake at Warren voters. Warren voters cried sexism. It got ugly fast. And these are people ostensibly on the same side. What’s going to happen when the general election comes around?

We know what’s going to happen. Friendships will fray and possibly snap. The election will happen, someone will win and some segment of the country won’t be able to process the loss of its preferred candidate in a healthy way.

People will lash out. We will have to read a thousand “what to say to your family on Thanksgiving” articles about how to be civil to people who share your blood but not your opinion on Medicare for All.

“But President Trump’s not civil!” or “Warren is a liar!” the arguments will go when people are called out on their nastiness. OK. If you dislike Trump or Warren, why are you emulating their behavior?

So what can you do to stay on good terms with the people in your life?

First, keep your politics off Facebook. Not one mind has ever been changed by anyone’s political ranting on any social-media platform, especially not Facebook. All such arguments accomplish is to divide old friends. Facebook is simply not made for arguments. You inevitably end up getting into a fight with the co-worker of your best friend from middle school.

A Pew poll in August found that “two-thirds of users (67 percent) say that discussing politics on ­social media with people they disagree with usually leads them to find out they have ‘less in common politically’ than they expected.” Common ground gets harder to find ­behind profile pictures and quippy responses.

The same Pew poll showed that nearly half of adult social-media ­users feel “worn out” by the “number of political posts and discussions they see on social media.” Post pictures of your vacation and your cat and maybe sometimes your sushi. Don’t post about politics.

The second thing you can do is to remember that your friends, even those whose opinions you find ­repellent, want what’s best for our nation. If you try to hold fast to that baseline assumption, it gets much easier not to lose a friendship over political disagreements.

I find Sanders’ ideas to be illogical, backward and tied to a political philosophy that has failed every time and everywhere it has been tried. But I know my friends who support him think he will herald a fairer society. They sincerely ­believe his is the way forward. Oppose them at the ballot box, not over dinner or on your Facebook page.

Finally, remember that politicians aren’t your family members, and they aren’t your friends. Ideologues want power; your loved ones want love. Don’t lose your actual family or friends over politicos. Similarly, the people on your political side shouldn’t be your “tribe.” Your ­actual tribe are the people who know you and care about you, not just people who vote your way.

Your tribe are your neighbors, the people at your church, the other parents at your kids’ school. They aren’t the people raving on social media on the same side as you. Remember that and go into the 2020 election keeping your friendships a high priority. There will be other elections: Let’s all try to save some friends for 2024 and beyond.


Normal people won’t lose friends over politics. A liberal relative of mine knows that we don’t discuss politics because we will never see eye to eye on it, but that doesn’t mean we would ever let it get between us. The reason the real difficulty lies on the liberal side, is because so many have the 3-letter malady which makes constructive debate impossible as they have irrational hatred against the president and therefore can’t be reasoned with.
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dancingqueen




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 7:52 pm
Cheiny wrote:
Normal people won’t lose friends over politics. A liberal relative of mine knows that we don’t discuss politics because we will never see eye to eye on it, but that doesn’t mean we would ever let it get between us. The reason the real difficulty lies on the liberal side, is because so many have the 3-letter malady which makes constructive debate impossible as they have irrational hatred against the president and therefore can’t be reasoned with.


Lol
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malki2




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 7:54 pm
icedcoffee wrote:
So according to this author, the way to not lose friends over politics is...

1. Immediately attack the progressive liberal candidates
2. Pat self on the back for suggesting people don't post about politics online, while posting this online
3. Make sure to slip in another attack against the progressive liberal candidates before you finish
4. Fill your own Facebook and Twitter with multiple posts every day attacking Democrats and the left.

Just.........why.


I posted it for the message of the title, not necessarily for the content of the article. I actually didn’t really read this one through.
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icedcoffee




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 8:08 pm
I actually went into it with an open mind! The title sounded nice to me too and I assumed it would be about how there are good people on both sides of the political spectrum, how we need to be open to everyone's ideas, and how we should set our differences aside and respect each other. But then she just can't stop herself from nastily picking on one side, and in a way that uses unnecessarily hostile rhetoric. There's absolutely no reason why she couldn't have simply said "Look, I'm not a big fan of Bernie Sanders. I really don't think his policies will be good for the country, but I'm not going to let it ruin a friendship." She could've even been extra-generous and thrown in a "Trump's fans have certainly had their own share of ugly language as well." I think it's pretty telling that even in a call for peace and unity, some people can't help but smugly denigrate the side they're supposed to be respecting. Interesting how on this thread, it only seems to be one side doing that, but what do I know. Makes me really wonder what those liberal relatives would think of certain people if they could see the way certain people discuss them here on this website.
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malki2




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 8:11 pm
I’ve actually said whatever there is to say on this issue. Whoever agrees with me already agrees, and whoever disagrees is not going to be convinced. I’ll post a good article now and then, but I think I’ll take a break on the political debate for now. להתראות
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fleetwood




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 8:26 pm
malki2 wrote:
I’ve actually said whatever there is to say on this issue. Whoever agrees with me already agrees, and whoever disagrees is not going to be convinced. I’ll post a good article now and then, but I think I’ll take a break on the political debate for now. להתראות

Good move! I've started doing the same.
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Jeanette




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 8:45 pm
Quote:

Your tribe are your neighbors, the people at your church, the other parents at your kids’ school. They aren’t the people raving on social media on the same side as you. Remember that and go into the 2020 election keeping your friendships a high priority. There will be other elections: Let’s all try to save some friends for 2024 and beyond.


I actually agree with this part and I've said it many times on this site. People are too quick to conflate conservative politics with Yiddishkeit and treat any attack on the a Republican party as if it's an attack on Torah and Hashem Himself, l'havdil.

Yes, I know some rabbonim have praised Trump but I don't think even those rabbonim, if you asked them, would cast aspersions on someone's Judaism because of the party they belong to. Maybe some people are just being very selective about when they listen to daas Torah and when they don't.
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sushilover




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 9:07 pm
Jeanette wrote:
Quote:

Your tribe are your neighbors, the people at your church, the other parents at your kids’ school. They aren’t the people raving on social media on the same side as you. Remember that and go into the 2020 election keeping your friendships a high priority. There will be other elections: Let’s all try to save some friends for 2024 and beyond.


I actually agree with this part and I've said it many times on this site. People are too quick to conflate conservative politics with Yiddishkeit and treat any attack on the a Republican party as if it's an attack on Torah and Hashem Himself, l'havdil.

Yes, I know some rabbonim have praised Trump but I don't think even those rabbonim, if you asked them, would cast aspersions on someone's Judaism because of the party they belong to. Maybe some people are just being very selective about when they listen to daas Torah and when they don't.


I agree!
Except I've seen that attitude coming from the left as well.

It's important to remember that at the end of the day, unless you are actually calling for the destruction of Israel, you are my sisters and no politics can change that.
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Cheiny




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 9:12 pm
Jeanette wrote:
Quote:

Your tribe are your neighbors, the people at your church, the other parents at your kids’ school. They aren’t the people raving on social media on the same side as you. Remember that and go into the 2020 election keeping your friendships a high priority. There will be other elections: Let’s all try to save some friends for 2024 and beyond.


I actually agree with this part and I've said it many times on this site. People are too quick to conflate conservative politics with Yiddishkeit and treat any attack on the a Republican party as if it's an attack on Torah and Hashem Himself, l'havdil.

Yes, I know some rabbonim have praised Trump but I don't think even those rabbonim, if you asked them, would cast aspersions on someone's Judaism because of the party they belong to. Maybe some people are just being very selective about when they listen to daas Torah and when they don't.


So why don’t you explain why it’s ok to vote for a party which contains the likes of Tlaib, Omar, and co. who spew anti semitism and are trying to push BDS and cutting aid to Israel, a self hater like Sanders whose hatred of Israel is on par with the above mentioned anti semites who are all endorsing him, and whose campaign contains numerous arabs as well.... a party which touts late term abortion (and no, not only when mother’s or baby’s life is in danger), toeiva and other sins the Torah holds to be forbidden?

And that’s completely aside from the obvious and unprecedented kindness towards Jews and Israel that the current president has shown...
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 9:13 pm
Voting is supposed to be a means to an end rather than a purpose in life. We vote to protect our way of life but we have to have time to live that life and therefore shouldn't totally waste our lives on politics.
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Jeanette




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 10:07 pm
Quote:

So why don’t you explain why it’s ok to vote for a party which contains the likes of Tlaib, Omar, and co. who spew anti semitism and are trying to push BDS and cutting aid to Israel, a self hater like Sanders whose hatred of Israel is on par with the above mentioned anti semites who are all endorsing him, and whose campaign contains numerous arabs as well.... a party which touts late term abortion (and no, not only when mother’s or baby’s life is in danger), toeiva and other sins the Torah holds to be forbidden? 

And that’s completely aside from the obvious and unprecedented kindness towards Jews and Israel that the current president has shown...


Cheiny, this is a question you need to discuss with your own rav.

"I know this lady who calls herself frum, but she votes for Democrats who hate Israel and love toevah, and does not acknowledge the greatness of Donald Trump, the greatest ohev Yisroel in world history. How should I relate to this woman? Is she still a fellow Jew? Is her food considered traif? Can I send my kids to the same schools? May I call her vulgar names?"

Please ask your rav and get back to us! I'd love to hear the response.
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PinkFridge




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 10:11 pm
southernbubby wrote:
Voting is supposed to be a means to an end rather than a purpose in life. We vote to protect our way of life but we have to have time to live that life and therefore shouldn't totally waste our lives on politics.


One of the candidates, you'd think I'd remember who, said that the purpose of politics is to make people's lives better.
When you think about it, maybe that's what Pirkei Avos meant, that without government "ish es rai'eihu chaim bela'u." (IIRC) But I don't think that's what s/he meant.
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southernbubby




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 10:56 pm
And everyone should remember that Facebook is treif, and not just in my neighborhood.
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mamma llama




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:01 pm
malki2 wrote:
Some good advice for all of us (including myself).

By Karol Markowicz January 19, 2020

How to not lose friends over politics during 2020 election


The real secret to not losing friends over politics is to not constantly discuss politics with them in the first place... Rolling Eyes Why'd you have to make it so complicated Karol Markowicz?!
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Cheiny




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:19 pm
Jeanette wrote:
Quote:

Your tribe are your neighbors, the people at your church, the other parents at your kids’ school. They aren’t the people raving on social media on the same side as you. Remember that and go into the 2020 election keeping your friendships a high priority. There will be other elections: Let’s all try to save some friends for 2024 and beyond.


I actually agree with this part and I've said it many times on this site. People are too quick to conflate conservative politics with Yiddishkeit and treat any attack on the a Republican party as if it's an attack on Torah and Hashem Himself, l'havdil.

Yes, I know some rabbonim have praised Trump but I don't think even those rabbonim, if you asked them, would cast aspersions on someone's Judaism because of the party they belong to. Maybe some people are just being very selective about when they listen to daas Torah and when they don't.


So today the dem party voted down a bill to outlaw infanticide. I’d like to hear any JEW try to explain how this party is anything but the antithesis of everythinG the Torah stands for.
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Cheiny




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:23 pm
Jeanette wrote:
Quote:

So why don’t you explain why it’s ok to vote for a party which contains the likes of Tlaib, Omar, and co. who spew anti semitism and are trying to push BDS and cutting aid to Israel, a self hater like Sanders whose hatred of Israel is on par with the above mentioned anti semites who are all endorsing him, and whose campaign contains numerous arabs as well.... a party which touts late term abortion (and no, not only when mother’s or baby’s life is in danger), toeiva and other sins the Torah holds to be forbidden? 

And that’s completely aside from the obvious and unprecedented kindness towards Jews and Israel that the current president has shown...


Cheiny, this is a question you need to discuss with your own rav.

"I know this lady who calls herself frum, but she votes for Democrats who hate Israel and love toevah, and does not acknowledge the greatness of Donald Trump, the greatest ohev Yisroel in world history. How should I relate to this woman? Is she still a fellow Jew? Is her food considered traif? Can I send my kids to the same schools? May I call her vulgar names?"

Please ask your rav and get back to us! I'd love to hear the response.


What makes you think I need to ask a Rov for the answers to any of the above (absurdly ridiculous) questions?

It would make much more sense for you to ask a rov whether a party containing and harboring anti semites, who vow to cut aid to Israel and tout BDS, refuse to outlaw infanticide, stand for everything the Torah abhors, etc. deserves a frum jew’s votes. I’d bet you wouldn’t dare for fear of the answer.
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shyshira




 
 
 
 

Post  Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:29 pm
Cheiny wrote:
So today the dem party voted down a bill to outlaw infanticide. I’d like to hear any JEW try to explain how this party is anything but the antithesis of everythinG the Torah stands for.


The dem party voted a bill down requiring doctors to provide standard medical care to newborn infants who survive abortion procedures.


Last edited by shyshira on Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:37 pm; edited 2 times in total
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