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amother
OP
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 Tue, Feb 25 2020, 10:21 pm
This is really a question for a Rav, but I wonder what you ladies think.
I always learned that it is assur to speak loshon hara on any Jew. Why then is it permissable to speak LH about famous jewish politicians? Or is it?
Bernie sanders, chuck Schumer and adam Schiff are Jewish...
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amother
Seafoam
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Tue, Feb 25 2020, 10:26 pm
I don't have the answer to your question - but do you have an expedient reason to speak lashon hara about these politicians?
even if its permitted - its idle chatter, no?
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amother
OP
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Tue, Feb 25 2020, 10:28 pm
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Why does anyone discuss politics??
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amother
Seafoam
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Tue, Feb 25 2020, 10:29 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Why does anyone discuss politics?? |
some people actually discuss ideas/platforms.
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Simple1
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Tue, Feb 25 2020, 10:52 pm
I thought LH was allowed on an apikorus. I know it's not clear how to define that, but just putting it out there
And many of us feel he is harmful, and therefore it might be l'toeles to inform people of that.
I'm no Rav and never asked one, but those are my thoughts.
Last edited by Simple1 on Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Seafoam
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Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:01 pm
| Simple1 wrote: | I thought LH was allowed on an apikorus. I know it's not clear how to define that and if it applies here, but just putting it out there
And many of us feel he is harmful, and therefore it might be l'toeles to inform people of that.
I'm no Rav and never asked one, but those are my thoughts. |
Is not LH to say - I think Bernie Sander's would be a harmful president for the following reasons...and then talk about his politics. His campaign promises are publically available.
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amother
Mustard
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Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:19 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | This is really a question for a Rav, but I wonder what you ladies think.
I always learned that it is assur to speak loshon hara on any Jew. Why then is it permissable to speak LH about famous jewish politicians? Or is it?
Bernie sanders, chuck Schumer and adam Schiff are Jewish... |
Actually doesn't apply at all to him because he is a public figure/ politician. There are multiple laws of l"h allowance it falls under.
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amother
Yellow
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Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:20 pm
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Someone that publicly mocks GD and the Torah and an atheist u r allowed to speak LH about and u should in order to protect ppl from falling to the traps of those kind of ppl.
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pause
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Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:22 pm
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I'm no Rav but based on my knowledge of hilchos shmiras halashon, he is in the category of "Yatza miklal amisecha."
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Cheiny
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Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:30 pm
| Simple1 wrote: | I thought LH was allowed on an apikorus. I know it's not clear how to define that, but just putting it out there
And many of us feel he is harmful, and therefore it might be l'toeles to inform people of that.
I'm no Rav and never asked one, but those are my thoughts. |
Indeed, and I’m also doubtful about Sanders’ lineage, considering his hatred of Israel, always siding with the palis, marrying a gentile, etc. When asked at tonight’s debate about his Jewishness, his brilliant “proof” of how proud he is to be Jewish was, “I actually lived in Israel for...A NUMBER OF MONTHS!” Well then, that should certainly dispel any thought that he’s a self hating Jew who would be even more harmful towards Israel than the nefarious obama was! When asked if he’d move the embassy back to Tel Aviv he very obviously avoided answering.
I’m sure the danger of allowing such a person to ever get close to the presidency would dictate that his true self be exposed to one and all.
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malki2
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Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:44 pm
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No issue of LH whatsoever on any of the people that you mentioned. And if any of these people touch your non-mevushal wine, you have to spill it out.
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Moonlight
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Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:53 pm
My son made a crack about him this week and u actually told him that we dont speak LH about other yidden.
Im not so sure you can speak LH abt someone who is not shomer torah. And hed be a tinok shenishba, not real apikores. I think ppl are justifying their actions but halachikally I dont think you can.
Ltoeles you can say why not to vote for him if u think they really are listening to that advice
but stam the negative remarks ppl make about him.....
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Cheiny
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Tue, Feb 25 2020, 11:54 pm
| malki2 wrote: | | No issue of LH whatsoever on any of the people that you mentioned. And if any of these people touch your non-mevushal wine, you have to spill it out. |
Yes indeed!
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DrMom
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Wed, Feb 26 2020, 12:03 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Why does anyone discuss politics?? |
Because there is an important election coming up that will likely have a huge impact on the future of the US.
It is vital to understand and discuss the mindset, background, and platforms of the candidates who are running to lead the country.
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amother
Seafoam
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Wed, Feb 26 2020, 12:06 am
| Moonlight wrote: | My son made a crack about him this week and u actually told him that we dont speak LH about other yidden.
Im not so sure you can speak LH abt someone who is not shomer torah. And hed be a tinok shenishba, not real apikores. I think ppl are justifying their actions but halachikally I dont think you can.
Ltoeles you can say why not to vote for him if u think they really are listening to that advice
but stam the negative remarks ppl make about him..... |
There are lots of ways to communicate dissatisfaction with a presidential candidate that don't require LH, Nivul Peh, or Rechilot.
We can do this.
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amother
Linen
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Wed, Feb 26 2020, 12:16 am
| Cheiny wrote: | Indeed, and I’m also doubtful about Sanders’ lineage, considering his hatred of Israel, always siding with the palis, marrying a gentile, etc. When asked at tonight’s debate about his Jewishness, his brilliant “proof” of how proud he is to be Jewish was, “I actually lived in Israel for...A NUMBER OF MONTHS!” Well then, that should certainly dispel any thought that he’s a self hating Jew who would be even more harmful towards Israel than the nefarious obama was! When asked if he’d move the embassy back to Tel Aviv he very obviously avoided answering.
I’m sure the danger of allowing such a person to ever get close to the presidency would dictate that his true self be exposed to one and all. | [b]
Is this an acceptable abbreviation in the US? It sounds to me like a very derogatory and condescending word. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it if someone called the Jews by some disrespectful abbreviation.
(I am not an American and have nothing to do with your politics so if 'palis' is an acceptable abbreviation which respectful people use, then forgive me. It sounds wrong to me, and it's not like I'm on the left side of politics or anything. If you don't believe the Palestinians are a proper nation, there are other ways to say it. You could put it in quotation marks, for example).
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amother
Seafoam
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Wed, Feb 26 2020, 12:26 am
| amother [ Linen ] wrote: | [b]
Is this an acceptable abbreviation in the US? It sounds to me like a very derogatory and condescending word. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it if someone called the Jews by some disrespectful abbreviation.
(I am not an American and have nothing to do with your politics so if 'palis' is an acceptable abbreviation which respectful people use, then forgive me. It sounds wrong to me, and it's not like I'm on the left side of politics or anything. If you don't believe the Palestinians are a proper nation, there are other ways to say it. You could put it in quotation marks, for example). |
what is considered acceptable speech in the US is very unclear.
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Moonlight
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Wed, Feb 26 2020, 6:39 am
| amother [ Linen ] wrote: | [b]
Is this an acceptable abbreviation in the US? It sounds to me like a very derogatory and condescending word. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it if someone called the Jews by some disrespectful abbreviation.
(I am not an American and have nothing to do with your politics so if 'palis' is an acceptable abbreviation which respectful people use, then forgive me. It sounds wrong to me, and it's not like I'm on the left side of politics or anything. If you don't believe the Palestinians are a proper nation, there are other ways to say it. You could put it in quotation marks, for example). |
I have never ever heard anyone use that before and im in usa. I think she just didnt feel like writing it out.
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amother
OP
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Wed, Feb 26 2020, 8:18 am
I actually asked a Rav this question. He answered :if its toeles, yes. If its not toeles, you may not speak l"h about him.
(He didnt day anything about him not being amisecha)
Ask your own Lor.
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PinkFridge
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Wed, Feb 26 2020, 8:52 am
I used to think that people of a certain age couldn't be tinokos shenishbu but I've met enough seniors who barely knew the proverbial Zaidy (think Megama) if at all. Even so, he's crossed lines that might him beyond amisecha.
But there's a difference between discussion l'to'eles, and there's a lot to criticize and discuss, and mocking and nastiness. We should definitely educate our children (and our inner children) to talk nicely.
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