Am I a snob? | Imamother

sequoia

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 12:25 pm

ssspectacular wrote:

I hear you. I think that I wouldn't post if I did not know the language well. But that's me. Obviously. not everyone feels the same way.

Then you would never learn.

Simple1

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 12:33 pm

We all have different things we're good at. Some people may have trouble with language and writing skills, but may be good at something else like hosting guests, or doing chesed etc. I think it's a good middah to be tolerant of people who have challenges of any kind, be it a hearing or mobility issue, or as simple as subpar writing skills.

Now I'm self conscious about this post.😗

Last edited by Simple1 on Sun, Mar 01 2020, 12:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

polka dots

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 12:35 pm

ssspectacular wrote:

I hear you. I think that I wouldn't post if I did not know the language well. But that's me. Obviously. not everyone feels the same way.

A. I don’t think it makes you a snob but I would put some other labels.

B. I think it’s pretty sad if you wouldn’t post because of a language difficulty. It limits your enjoyment and communication if you stay stuck at your written language level.

C. As others have said, when people come here to post they are not interested in putting in effort as if this is an article to a magazine!

D. Consider how your post makes people with dyslexia or other learning disabilities feel.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 12:35 pm

I think it takes a lot of courage to post in a language you are not completely familiar with. (With which you are not completely familiar?)

I've forgotten half my Spanish, and my Hebrew is atrocious at best. I think if someone were to be mean to me I'd crumble and give up. Crying

B'H Israelis have big hearts, and know that I am trying my best.

The only time I would point out an error to someone is 1. If I knew the poster well enough that I knew she wouldn't be offended, and 2. It would be hilarious. Autocomplete is always good for a laugh. It depends on the context of the thread as well. I certainly wouldn't correct anyone in a very serious or sad thread, only a lighthearted one.

(It's late, I have a headache, and you have no idea how many typos and grammatical errors I just made in this post. I hope I caught them all!)

moonstone

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 12:36 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Be VERY careful there. You are walking a fine line between literary critique and Chassidish bashing. Things could get ugly very quickly.

Yiddish is a perfectly acceptable language, and is part of our heritage. It would be sad to see it disappear. I feel the same way about Ladino, which in many places is completely forgotten even among native Spanish speakers.

You can argue that speaking Yiddish first has a negative affect on accessibility to higher education or employment, but that is for a Yiddish speaker to decide, not for someone else to declare "terrible".

Who said Yiddish should disappear?

So many people on this site have pointed out that many American-born Jews can barely hold a conversation in English, fill out forms, read books, get a job that requires good English, etc. Why does only a Yiddish speaker get to decide that's a bad thing? I think it's terrible if ANYONE born in the US can't speak English at native tongue level, whether they're Chassidish, Mexican, Russian, or any other nationality.

Simple1

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 12:38 pm

Alternative wrote:

I am pretty sure that most of the mistakes on this site are from American born posters.
There are people here with English as a second or third language, but they are a small minority, and certainly cannot account for the constant mistakes here.

It bothers me. I'm not perfect myself, but I like to read things that improve my language skills, not bring them down.

This site is informal and a place to relax. There are better ways to improve your language skills.

Studious

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 1:09 pm

Seems to me that some of the “bad English” on this site is just “frum English” or “Yiddish English”. Easy for people who speak standard English to put it down, however maybe we should treat it like black English - a language with its own rules and culture.

chanatron1000

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 1:16 pm

Sometimes the way something is written bothers me, for example, when someone posts a large block of text with no paragraphs. But as long as the meaning can be understood without too much extra effort, I don't think there's anything wrong with writing informally, the way you speak. And there is nothing wrong with speaking nonstandard English.

Mommyg8

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 1:20 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

blessedflower

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 1:42 pm

English is my 3th or 4th language. And I'm learning now a 5th. I think my English is pretty good, but nothing to compare to someone who English is their first language. This site has offered me a lot, from support, advise and delicious recipes. It's a pity language should hold me back.
I'm learning Hebrew now and it's going extremely slow as I'm embarrassed to talk, at least with my writing skills I don't have to be so embarrassed about making mistakes.

Also often when I don't know how to spell a word I use a different word instead, or go around and my writting gets super long. It probably is less good English, but it's the best I can

Last edited by blessedflower on Sun, Mar 01 2020, 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

polka dots

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 1:50 pm

blessedflower wrote:

English is my 3th or 4th language. And I'm learning now a 5th. I think my English is pretty good, but nothing to compare to someone who English is their first language. This site has offered me a lot, from support, advise and delicious recipes. It's a petty language should hold me back.
I'm learning Hebrew now and it's going extremely slow as I'm embarrassed to talk, at least my writing skills I don't have to be so embarrassed about making mistakes.

Also often when I don't know how to spell a word I use a different word instead, or go around and my writting gets super long. It probably is less good English, but it's the best I can

Wow your English is great!

PinkFridge

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 2:24 pm

chanatron1000 wrote:

This. I'll often skip an OP that's long, no paragraphs.
And as Southernbubby says, people can be typing with one hand. And/or on a small device. And/or be using English as a second or third language.
Oh, and even if typing on a larger keyboard, maybe without the benefit of years of typing training.

Cheiny

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 2:33 pm

ssspectacular wrote:

I am so bothered by the poor English Language Skills that have become so prevalent on this site. Does that make me a snob?

No it makes you particular about the English language. It bothers me too...especially how even news reporters don’t even know when you say, “Sarah and me,” or “Sarah and I.” It’s not always ...and I!”

Last edited by Cheiny on Sun, Mar 01 2020, 7:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

PinkFridge

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 2:45 pm

Cheiny wrote:

No it makes you particular about the English language. It bothers me too...especially how even news reporters don’t even know when you said, “Sarah and me,” or “Sarah and I.” It’s not always ...and I!”

Oh yes, this and I thing...Grrrrrrr! From really smart people sometimes, too.

egam

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 3:04 pm

blessedflower wrote:

English is my 3th or 4th language. And I'm learning now a 5th. I think my English is pretty good, but nothing to compare to someone who English is their first language. This site has offered me a lot, from support, advise and delicious recipes. It's a petty language should hold me back.
I'm learning Hebrew now and it's going extremely slow as I'm embarrassed to talk, at least my writing skills I don't have to be so embarrassed about making mistakes.

Also often when I don't know how to spell a word I use a different word instead, or go around and my writting gets super long. It probably is less good English, but it's the best I can

I could’ve written this almost word for word. English is my 3rd language. And I’m extremely self conscious when writing or speaking.
I use the Grammarly app when writing an official document or email. It helps to an extent.

zohar

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 3:55 pm

ssspectacular wrote:

I guess it's because writing well is important to me. It's hard to see that so many people don't care about it.

Your first post didn't come out snobby, but this one did a bit. I find that snobs have a hard time understanding that other people have different priorities and things that are important to them. Most snobby people aren't thinking, "I'm better because I'm richer, more successful, a better parent, more beautiful." I find that the through process is more like, "why doesn't she care enough to make herself look representable." "I can't understand how she didn't care that her kids are so wild."
I know a "snob" who is so bothered by and looks down on some relatives of hers who are very talented and can probably make it rich if they really tried. But they rather work in the family business where the work isn't too hard and they make a salary that supports their simply lifestyle. She can't understand that they would rather chill than work extra hard to get wealthy. When I tried to explain it, she decided they were, "wrong".

blessedflower

Sun, Mar 01 2020, 4:10 pm

polka dots wrote:

Wow your English is great!

thanks. My French is almost gone. Last week I had to make a phone call in French, I used some Hebrew words 😂😏 I'm happy I don't know the person on the other end of the phone (a non Jew that didn't understand me too well, obviously )