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amother
OP
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 Wed, Mar 04 2020, 8:57 pm
Mishapacha Magazine, Issue 800, True Account "Everest Calls"
Long story short, a person decides to climb Mount Everest to feel closer to Hashem.
My question is, is it wise for Mishpacha to glorify such risk-taking adventures?
Quote from page 115:
| Quote: | | One day at base camp, a guide came into the dining tent holding a body bag. He had found a body and was going to try to recover it. There are many such bodies scattered over the mountain, very often perfectly preserved for years due to the cold. Most people who die at Everest die near the summit, in what's called the death zone; the air is so thin and inadequate there that the body simply shuts down. Back in Kathmandu I heard that a guy that I got to know well at base camp collapsed 100 feet from the summit and the *Sherpas couldn't revive him." |
Quote from page 115 continued onto 116:
| Quote: | | Getting to Camp 1 requires crossing the Khumbu Icefall, one of the most treacherous spots on Everest. An icefall is a moving part of a glacier, and large towers of ice often come tumbling off of it. Large crevasses open in the ice with little warning. Our team of five set out at night, and we were soon surrounded by huge frozen walls, the silence punctuated by the sound of ice crashing into ice. We crossed large crevasses by walking across horizontal ladders while harnessed to a rope system. This system isn't foolproof - if a hiker trips off the ladder, his rope can snap and he'll lose his only link to life. Icefall crevasses are the final resting spot for many lost hikers, all of whom were attached to harnesses just like mine. At one point my foot got stuck between the ladder rungs. It was a terrifying moment, especially when I unwisely glanced down into the abyss, but I managed to stay calm and keep my balance while working my foot out. |
* Sherpas (page 111) are an ethnic group of Himalayan mountain dwellers who are expert mountaineers and serve as climbing guides.
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amother
Linen
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Wed, Mar 04 2020, 9:34 pm
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Did you see the Rabbinical board disclaimer at the end of the article, saying that people shouldn't engage in dangerous activities? I've never seen that with any other article.
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amother
OP
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Wed, Mar 04 2020, 9:45 pm
Thanks. I didn't read the entire article to the end because I was so upset.
Rabbinical Board Quote page 117:
| Quote: | | It should be stressed that unnecessary risk-taking is prohibited. Before engaging in risky endeavors, one must consult with a halachic authority. |
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amother
Yellow
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Wed, Mar 04 2020, 11:02 pm
He wasn't doing it to feel closer to Hashem. He was doing it as a means of overcoming significant trauma in his personal life. Along the way it seems he felt it deepened his connection to Hashem, whereas he had previously struggled with religion. I did not think anything was glorified; if anything, it sounded grueling and terrifying, and he didn't even meet all of his goals.
Anyway, the rabbinic disclaimer at the end was pretty clear.
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gingie37
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Wed, Mar 04 2020, 11:12 pm
I thought the story was amazing and inspiring.
There was a disclaimer at the end. It wasn’t glorifying doing dangerous things, it was about how he went through a lot of trauma and used climbing as a way out to recover from his trauma.
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sky
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Wed, Mar 04 2020, 11:15 pm
I read an article (I think somewhere else maybe) where 2 frum women climbed. Not the whole way up but maybe 1/3. They arranged it so Shabbos was a break day. In the end they had be airlifted down because one of them didn’t acclimate well to the air.
The hikes to the lower camps aren’t as risky.
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agreer
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Wed, Mar 04 2020, 11:58 pm
Of course it's overly risky.
It's also super expensive and requires a LOT of training.
I don't think the magazine was glorifying it. It's an amazing accomplishment.
But it's definitely not for most people and I don't think it's for a frum parent. Way too risky.
I read the article about the 2 girls who did the lower hike. I'm pretty sure they were both single, or at least one was. Just that lower climb took them 2 weeks, and at the end one got sick and had to be helicoptered to a hospital in Nepal. Yikes!
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amother
Green
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Thu, Mar 05 2020, 12:29 am
I felt that this amazing ordeal, didn't quite fit into a magazine, that wouldn't dare put a holy woman's face.( After you do post a picture, put a rabbis disclaimer)
This is not something we need to know about or emulate. A yid does not risk his life for such shtisim. Rabbis can put a disclaimer on anything, after this horrendous adventure that doesn't teach me anything. Just my humble opinion!
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amother
Smokey
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Thu, Mar 05 2020, 1:17 am
| agreer wrote: | | It's an amazing accomplishment. |
No, it really isn't. It's an astonishing expenditure of energy and effort that accomplishes nothing.
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naomi2
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Thu, Mar 05 2020, 7:03 am
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I learned alot from this article and I think it definitely belongs in a frum magazine. I want to read about adventure precisely because our lifestyle has so little of it. You really think because someone read about it, they will go do it? The article was clear it was exltremely difficult to do and This was not a tutorial it was an inspirational story about how one yid became closer to Hashem after a life of trauma in a interesting and unconventional way. It validates all jews and all connections to Hashem. It encourages people to connect to Hashem in a very personal way, And gives readers a glimpse of another world that we will likely never see.
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sky
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Thu, Mar 05 2020, 7:15 am
Personally I love reads about climbing Everest.
The articles about the day there was gridlock on the summit and inexperienced ppl climbed and multiple people died is especially fascinating.
I don’t think it’s any worse then writing about other extreme sports or adventures.
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sky
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Thu, Mar 05 2020, 7:22 am
| amother [ Smokey ] wrote: | | No, it really isn't. It's an astonishing expenditure of energy and effort that accomplishes nothing. |
What does any vacation accomplish?
Why go to Florida?
Why go hiking?
Jet skiing?
Biking?
Skiing?
Whatever those activities accomplish for one person this accomplished for another person.
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amother
Linen
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Thu, Mar 05 2020, 7:25 am
| agreer wrote: | | I read the article about the 2 girls who did the lower hike. I'm pretty sure they were both single, or at least one was. Just that lower climb took them 2 weeks, and at the end one got sick and had to be helicoptered to a hospital in Nepal. Yikes! |
Any idea where this other article appeared, and how I could find it? I also love reading about Everest, and outdoor adventure in general, and as a BT, it's not something that often intersects with frum life.
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watergirl
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Thu, Mar 05 2020, 8:09 am
| amother [ Smokey ] wrote: | | No, it really isn't. It's an astonishing expenditure of energy and effort that accomplishes nothing. |
For you, it accomplishes nothing. Others can say the same things about any hobbies you may feel passionately about. If you take the time to speak to climbers or to read their stories, there is a reason each and every one of them go into this. No one spends that kind of money (it is extremely expensive) and effort (training takes years and years before you can attempt one of these mountains) to accomplish "nothing".
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | Thanks. I didn't read the entire article to the end because I was so upset. |
I cant understand why an article would upset you this much. The author was quite clear from the get-go about the abuse he had endured in his early life and spoke about his distance from yiddishkeit. That in and of itself is upsetting, of course. But it seemed clear to me, at least, that there was going to be an inspiring end to the story.
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PinkFridge
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Thu, Mar 05 2020, 8:44 am
| amother [ Smokey ] wrote: | | No, it really isn't. It's an astonishing expenditure of energy and effort that accomplishes nothing. |
The sister of someone who climbed Everest was asked why her brother did it. She said, to feel the wind rushing through the holes in his head. (Ask someone why he or she climbed Everest; the stock answer is, because it was there.)
I'm fascinated by Everest. I read the Gordon Korman trilogy and took my kids to an IMAX. (Oops, there was some avodah zara in it. But really cool.) But no, it's seems like a slam dunk that it's an issur gamur: to put one's life in danger, and to endanger the Sherpas (yes, it a danger to them too). I get why this person did it. I hope that anyone who needs to do something like this for closure or for whatever reason finds other challenges, and never feels that s/he is missing out on something for not going on this ultimate challenge.
I remember seeing a Time cover article about a blind man that climbed Everest. I contrasted that to an interview with a blind man who ran a marathon, with a "Sherpa" of sorts running with him. Now that I think is fantastic.
Of course, there are other ways to climb figurative mountains in life; they're not all physical.
And I want to stress re the author of the Mishpacha article: Again, I get it. For who and where he was, I see why this was such a transformative experience. But I think he's going to need to stress, repeatedly, that there are other and better ways to accomplish the same goals.
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amother
Linen
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Thu, Mar 05 2020, 10:07 am
I'm curious what you all would have to say about this:
https://www.kosherhorizons.com/kilimanjaro
It was supposed to be a private kosher expedition to climb Mt. Kilimanjaro, the highest point in Africa. It's obviously no walk in the park, but it's NOTHING like Everest - 10,000 feet shorter (19k vs. 29k), no technical climbing involved. I say "supposed to be" because DH looked into it, but it got canceled due to not enough people signing up.
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amother
Olive
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Thu, Mar 05 2020, 11:46 am
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meet the guy, hang out with him, be inspired by him, then decide if you want to judge him. I have, and am impressed by his journey
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Laiya
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Thu, Mar 05 2020, 2:46 pm
| watergirl wrote: | For you, it accomplishes nothing. Others can say the same things about any hobbies you may feel passionately about. If you take the time to speak to climbers or to read their stories, there is a reason each and every one of them go into this. No one spends that kind of money (it is extremely expensive) and effort (training takes years and years before you can attempt one of these mountains) to accomplish "nothing".
amother [ OP ] wrote:
Thanks. I didn't read the entire article to the end because I was so upset.
I cant understand why an article would upset you this much. The author was quite clear from the get-go about the abuse he had endured in his early life and spoke about his distance from yiddishkeit. That in and of itself is upsetting, of course. But it seemed clear to me, at least, that there was going to be an inspiring end to the story. |
I think it's impressive, but the value of the accomplishment is outweighed, imo, by the extreme risk of death. I feel similarly, but less strongly, about pro football players and their high risk of suffering from tbi's. Their ability to play football may be impressive, but not ever worth the harm. I would not want my child to be a pro football player or to attempt to climb Mt. Everest.
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amother
Smokey
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Thu, Mar 05 2020, 2:50 pm
| Watergirl wrote: | | For you, it accomplishes nothing. Others can say the same things about any hobbies you may feel passionately about. |
No, I only feel passionately about hobbies that objectively accomplish something without a significant risk of death.
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Laiya
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Thu, Mar 05 2020, 3:08 pm
| amother [ Linen ] wrote: | | Did you see the Rabbinical board disclaimer at the end of the article, saying that people shouldn't engage in dangerous activities? I've never seen that with any other article. |
Imo, the disclaimer wasn't enough to counteract the article.
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