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Aylat

Mon, May 11 2020, 12:06 pm

Flashback to Brachot 13

Ladies, have you got any advice for me? I find it really difficult to have כוונה when saying שמע (except the first line). The words are so familiar my mouth goes on auto-pilot and my brain drifts. I find שמונה עשרה easier because it's requests and thanks.

Aylat

Mon, May 11 2020, 12:28 pm

Shabbat 66

All the time - what, back to טומאה/טהרה again? What's left to learn in סדר טהרות - הלכות שבת? (I guess we'll find out beH...)

But just now I had the glimmering of an answer. These halachot tell us the definition of an object. A כלי or not? And understanding what the object is tells us what the halacha is eg with regards to הוצאה?

Aylat

Thu, May 14 2020, 7:15 am

I have a bunch of thoughts and questions that I haven't managed to post here. I'll start with today's and go backwards.

Shabbat 69

The discussion about what exactly meets the definition of שוגג and מזיד.
בזדון שבת ושגגת מלאכות
זדון means he did something wrong - deliberately violated Shabbat. But what the Gemara is saying is that he knew about Shabbat but not about the מלאכות. Why not say ידע על שבת or something similar which would avoid the implication/connotation of deliberate transgression?

Aylat

Thu, May 14 2020, 7:26 am

Shabbat 68

פיאה ליתא בתאנה וירק, דתנן
: כלל אמרו בפיאה: כל שהוא אוכל ונשמר
No פאה מדאורייתא for figs and vegetables because they can't be stored for a long time. What about other fruits? Most berries and citrus fruits don't last long either. Apples do. Dates and grapes can be dried but so can figs.

Aylat

Thu, May 14 2020, 7:40 am

Shabbat 67

Weird magic incantations!

Interesting use of the פסוקים from the סנה to relate it to healing from illness. סר הלום etc

ולימא הכי "הסנה הסנה! לאו משום דגביהת מכל אילני אשרי הקב"ה שכינתיה עלך, אלא משום דמייכת [20] מכל אילני אשרי קודשא בריך הוא שכינתיה עלך!
Beautiful reminder to be humble, specifically related to asking to be cured from illness.

Why is it called דרכי האמורי? Why not דרכי העכו"ם? What is unique about the practices of the אמורי nation?

ובשן של שועל - דעבדי לשינתא: דחייא - למאן דניים, דמיתא למאן דלא ניים.
(Possibly silly question.) What if the fox died while you were wearing the tooth?

המרקדת לכותת והמשתקת לעדשים והמצווחת לגריסין - יש בו משום דרכי האמורי;
Shame it's דרכי האמורי, I could see my kids really getting into this- especially the screaming for beans (barley?).

malki2

Thu, May 14 2020, 10:20 am

Aylat wrote:

I think that because there is no official Gemara for Seder Taharot, all of the Taharot Gemaras are scattered throughout Shas.

malki2

Thu, May 14 2020, 10:23 am

Aylat wrote:

I think it’s just a term that is used because we are discussing both שוגג and מזיד in this perek. So זדון is the word used to contrast with שוגג.

malki2

Thu, May 14 2020, 10:25 am

Aylat wrote:

I assume that anything that can’t be stored has the same דין as ירק. BTW I think that technically ירק is greens, such as lettuce. Because carrots and turnips and beets can be stored.

Aylat

Thu, May 14 2020, 10:37 am

malki2 wrote:

I think that because there is no official Gemara for Seder Taharot, all of the Taharot Gemaras are scattered throughout Shas.

Oops didn't know there was no Gemara on סדר טהרות. Makes sense then.

I looked it up. Only מסכת נידה, for both בבלי and ירושלמי.

Aylat

Thu, May 14 2020, 10:37 am

malki2 wrote:

I think it’s just a term that is used because we are discussing both שוגג and מזיד in this perek. So זדון is the word used to contrast with שוגג.

Yeah, but מזיד means sinning with intent. This phrase does not refer to that. So it's davka confusing.

Aylat

Thu, May 14 2020, 10:39 am

malki2 wrote:

I assume that anything that can’t be stored has the same דין as ירק. BTW I think that technically ירק is greens, such as lettuce. Because carrots and turnips and beets can be stored.

Then why single out תאנה if it applies to other perishable fruits?

Would make sense re ירק, hadn't thought of that.

malki2

Thu, May 14 2020, 10:42 am

Aylat wrote:

Then why single out תאנה if it applies to other perishable fruits?

Would make sense re ירק, hadn't thought of that.

תאנה was cited not with regards to perishability but because it’s a fruit where not all the fruits ripen at the same time. That’s a pretty unique feature.

Aylat

Thu, May 14 2020, 10:44 am

Just looked up משנה פאה.
פרק א משנה ה
ובאילן, האוג והחרובין ואגוזים והשקדים והגפנים והרמונים והזיתים והתמרים, חייבין בפאה.

Not sure what אוג is. Carobs and nuts last for ages. Grapes, pomegranates, olives and dates all go off. Grapes and dates are commonly dried. Olives are normally pickled to preserve them, and olive oil, the common end product of olives, lasts for ages. I've never heard of a way of preserving pomegranates.

Of course that's only one משנה, put together with others may give a bigger picture.

Aylat

Thu, May 14 2020, 10:46 am

malki2 wrote:

תאנה was cited not with regards to perishability but because it’s a fruit where not all the fruits ripen at the same time. That’s a pretty unique feature.

Oh yeah, I remember now R' Wise said that. OK.

ETA just looked back in the Gemara, it's מפורש there. Oops.

Aylat

Thu, May 28 2020, 12:34 am

Shabbat 81

Imorethanamother- re our discussion much earlier about remembering whose shita is whose. Like I said, I am far from being able to do that - with the exception that I now know that R' Yehuda always goes le'chumra to the smaller shiur and the Chachamim go according to the more common usage even if it's bigger - because R Wise keeps mentioning it almost every daf at the moment!

Allowed to carry stones into בית הכסא even though מוקצה because of כבוד הבריות. Sounds like the modern day heter to tear toilet paper כלאחר יד if there's no cut tissues available. (Side point: I'm very happy I live in a time of soft toilet paper instead of stones!)

What on earth is the connection between stones for wiping oneself and etrogim? Why would the shiur be the same?

Why would a pestle be more muktze than a stone? I would have thought a pestle is כלי שמלאכתו לאיסור, which you can move לצורך גופו ומקומו, and a stone is מוקצה מחמת גופו which is a more stringent form of muktze. Am I misunderstanding halachot of muktze?

(Need to go now, more later b'n. May we all be זוכה to a true and deep קבלת התורה.
חג שמח and hope your cheesecakes turn out yummy Smile

)

Aylat

Sun, May 31 2020, 11:13 am

Hey all, I wanted to share something from a Shavuot shiur given by a woman in my community, that connects to the way I feel about my daf yomi learning.

The title of the shiur was
אילו קרבנו לפני הר סיני ולא נתן לנו את התורה - דיינו?!
and the message of the shiur was that מעמד הר סיני was more about the *experience* of the revelation than its content.

The source I wanted to quote here is from חגיגה ג. about the מצווה of הקהל.
ת"ר מעשה ברבי יוחנן בן ברוקה ורבי אלעזר (בן) חסמא שהלכו להקביל פני ר' יהושע בפקיעין אמר להם מה חידוש היה בבית המדרש היום אמרו לו תלמידיך אנו ומימיך אנו שותין אמר להם אף על פי כן אי אפשר לבית המדרש בלא חידוש שבת של מי היתה שבת של ר' אלעזר בן עזריה היתה ובמה היתה הגדה היום אמרו לו בפרשת הקהל ומה דרש בה (דברים לא, יב) הקהל את העם האנשים והנשים והטף אם אנשים באים ללמוד נשים באות לשמוע טף למה באין כדי ליתן שכר למביאיהן אמר להם מרגלית טובה היתה בידכם ובקשתם לאבדה ממני

נשים באות לשמוע. The sense of hearing is an immersive experiential sense. (experience)חוה - חוויה. The aspect the women took from הקהל was the experience of the gathering, hearing the words of Torah read in the presence of a gathering of the entire people etc.

[BTW the way I am normally allergic to gender generalisations, so if this doesn't speak to you, I understand.]

I found this very much describes the way I am following along with the daf yomi. I personally am not able (my life circumstances at the moment) to learn the arguments and shittot of the Gemara thoroughly. Rather my aim is to experience the Gemara, to listen to the shiur every day, to gain an exposure to the ideas and concepts discussed throughout Shas. This was my aim from the beginning and it was interesting to find it mirrored here.

amother

Pumpkin

Sun, May 31 2020, 5:26 pm

Aylat wrote:

FWIW - I think you are learning - rather than merely listening. At the present time, you may not be processing everything as thoroughly as you would like to, but you are learning as much as possible and on the level you are able to, for now (which is much more than many others - both men and women - are doing). I think all (men, women, and children) absorbed the atmosphere and experience, and both men and women learned - with as much depth as the level they were on. (I too am allergic to gender generalizations.)

May we all be zocheh to experience Hakhel b’karov, and may we all learn as much as we can, in the meantime!

amother

Pumpkin

Mon, Jun 01 2020, 12:59 am

Daf 86

I know we touched on this in Brachos 22, but no matter how many times it comes up - I still have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that engaging in a dvar mitzvah (which is objectively a positive thing) engenders tumah (which at least appears to be a negative thing).

Aylat

Mon, Jun 01 2020, 5:36 am

amother [ Pumpkin ] wrote:

There are other examples of this - burying the dead, preparing the פרה אדומה and carrying out the sprinkling, childbirth. It's a good question and I don’t really know how to understand what טומאה is, though there are different explanations such as that of R Hirsch about the loss of life (if I remember correctly).

amother

Orchid

Mon, Jun 01 2020, 5:46 am

Aylat wrote:

The loss of life theory might work for menstruation, but you can't possibly apply it to childbirth. Sometimes, there really are no good answers.

Meanwhile, I've been enjoying the fact that we learn about מתן תורה right after שבועות.

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