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amother




OP
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 5:31 pm
amother [ Crimson ] wrote:
OP. You started this thread asking advice and saying that it bothered your dh. However, as this thread goes on it's increasingly clear that this is actually bothering you very much. And also that you're not willing to give way or hear other opinions.

I don't know. Maybe there's a reason your DIL doesn't want make it her priority to come round to you. Just something to think about.

That is not true.
I sorry no to the answer That in life we should have ZERO expectations, do what makes us feel right and good and just go with the flow.
There should be rules, no??
Parents and children should be on same level?

As usual My words are taken out of context & thrown back in my face here
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amother




Taupe
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 5:52 pm
ora_43 wrote:
.... on top of hearing the megilla twice, each, having a seuda, creating and delivering MM, and giving matanot l'evyonim.



Once you're going out to deliver mishloach manot, you can make another stop at the grandparents, especially in this case where they are in the area.
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Librarian




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 5:53 pm
amother [ Ivory ] wrote:
Other than for the sake of honoring parents, it makes sense for children to go to parents because there are siblings in most families.


"Other than"???? Oh boy have we got to do a better job being mechanech our kids!
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amother




Ivory
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 5:53 pm
If you give MM to siblings, the parents' house is a convenient place to do that.
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amother




Crimson
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 5:56 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
That is not true.
I sorry no to the answer That in life we should have ZERO expectations, do what makes us feel right and good and just go with the flow.
There should be rules, no??
Parents and children should be on same level?

As usual My words are taken out of context & thrown back in my face here


She said zero expectations from OTHERS. Nothing to do with just doing what makes you feel good and disregarding everyone else.
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amother




Seagreen
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 6:02 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
That is not true.
I sorry no to the answer That in life we should have ZERO expectations, do what makes us feel right and good and just go with the flow.
There should be rules, no??
Parents and children should be on same level?


As usual My words are taken out of context & thrown back in my face here


But that’s exactly the point. There are ALREADY “rules” on Purim, from G-d Himself, enough rules to last a busy family the entire day, and more.
We’re not putting parents and children on the same level, we’re putting different MITZVAHS on the same level. Mitzvahs that cannot be done any other day of the year.
And I agree with posters calling you out on leaving out your son. It’s unfair to blame all of this on your DIL.
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amother




Blonde
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 6:05 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
That is not true.
I sorry no to the answer That in life we should have ZERO expectations, do what makes us feel right and good and just go with the flow.
There should be rules, no??
Parents and children should be on same level?

As usual My words are taken out of context & thrown back in my face here


No one is saying that parents and children should be on the same level. I'll say that if you insist on formalities without taking circumstances into account, you'll be that bubby everyone dreads visiting but goes to see out of obligation.

I think it's respectful for children to visit parents. I recognize that sometimes it's a lot harder for the younger generation to get out. So what? The joy is in seeing the children and grandchildren, wherever it happens.
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flowerpower




 
 
 
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 9:46 pm
I am a lot shocked right now. Before going to teachers, friends, neighbors, fifth cousins once removed, old workmates, friends that moved 2 decades ago..comes parents. What is wrong with people!?!? Yesterday we were stuck in so much traffic. We dropped going to a lot of people on our list and went to our parents. At night after the party finished we continued our route.
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amother




Goldenrod
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 10:13 pm
amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:
But that’s exactly the point. There are ALREADY “rules” on Purim, from G-d Himself, enough rules to last a busy family the entire day, and more.
We’re not putting parents and children on the same level, we’re putting different MITZVAHS on the same level. Mitzvahs that cannot be done any other day of the year.
And I agree with posters calling you out on leaving out your son. It’s unfair to blame all of this on your DIL.


So give a mishloach manos to your parents and fulfill TWO mitzvos at the same time.

Using the excuse that MM>>Kibbud Av V'eim is ridiculous. Give your parents the MM and send your rebbeim and teachers on Taanis Esther/last day of school OR NOT.

It's a mitzva to GIVE mishloach manos, not necessarily to give teachers.

Caveat: I believe this when the parents live within reasonable driving distance, which to me is less than 30 min away. Any more than that *is* an unfair burden, unless you'll be driving that distance (or more) to a rebbi/teacher/seudah at a friend's house.

If you think schlepping 30 min to your parents is excessive on Purim, then you best not be schlepping 30 min anywhere else. Don't be a hypocrite.
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amother




Wine
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 10:18 pm
The corona virus mainly affects those over 50
Perhaps a reminder to fix our kibbud of vaaim?
We are an amazing nation but sometimes our priorities are mixed up.
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amother




Ginger
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 10:42 pm
ora_43 wrote:
.... on top of hearing the megilla twice, each, having a seuda, creating and delivering MM, and giving matanot l'evyonim.

Plus of course getting the kids dressed up, feeding them, bathing them, putting them to bed, taking them to Purim parties, helping them deliver their own MM, and a dozen other things that are part of gidul banim/ chinuch on Purim.

Just hearing the megillah can be 4 hours, easy; 3 for the seuda; 2 for davening; 2 for delivering MM and matanot l'evyonim even if you do the minimal version some posters here are suggesting; and let's not forget that if OP's grandkids are little it might take an hour just to get everyone in shoes and out of the house.

If OP's dil (or her son, who - and I know I'm sounding like a broken record here - is just as much a part of this) were writing in I might agree with you, but since it's OP, my vote is still for "don't give them yet another mitzva that has to be done EXACTLY NOW on this one specific day, Purim is beyond hard enough already with little kids."

Kids should worry about kibud av v'em. Parents, OTOH, should worry about making sure their kids feel loved and respected and heard, and being flexible with How Things Are Done in the name of mutual trust and affection can go a long way.

And I would argue that teaching children to honor grandparents is part of chinuch/gidul banim, and yes, on Purim. If they won't learn it when they're young, when will they?

It sounds like the kids were bundled and in the car already to deliver shalach manos, so I dont think it would take an extra hour to get the shoes on and get them in the car.

Ora43 is suggesting that each side should focus on their own piece. I think you are missing a piece here. OP is in the middle between her husband and dil. Her husband vented to OP that dil doesn't find it important to visit them, and OP came on here to get a reality check: is her dil justified in her attitude or are she and her dh justified in feeling like dil's attitude is off?

Many posters, myself included, agreed with OP and her husband that dil is being disrespectful and neglecting to take their feelings into account. If all she wanted was to know was if her feelings arejustified, I think she got her answer.

However, Ora45, I agree with you that in any case, there's not much you can do. Better focus on your part because you can't control your dil, and if you keep demanding things (no matter how justified), the bad feelings will just escalate. Better make peace with the situation. You didn't raise her...

I wonder where is OPs son in all this?? My hunch is that dil "wears the pants in the house", and that's why OP is blaming her, since she knows the son doenst have much of a say. Am I right oP?

Ultimately, I think that the issue here is not who is busier. And it's not even so much as what is the right thing (though I think- pashtus- the younger generation should visit the older generation.) But there are extenuating circumstances, such as maybe the older folks live in a 4th floor apartment without an elevator, or such as the mom with 14 kids who chimed in before. It didn't sound like this was the case here. It sounded more like dil simply didnt prioritize this at all. The flippant attitude shows that she doesn't really care much one way or another if the grandparents hey to see the kids on Purim, and that is what is bothering OP and her husband. She didn't apologize or show she was trying to make it work. It was simply not a priority.

To DIL, delivering shalach manos to everyone else is more important. And it's not even as if this would be so out of the way, since OP lives on the way to her parents. Ultimately, in these things, it's all in the attitude. I suspect that this is not the only area that OP feels taken advantage of and not important enough in dil's eyes.
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amother




Ginger
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 10:48 pm
Reading through this thread is interesting because OP wanted to know what is the appropriate protocol, dil visiting mil or vice versa? From the responses, I gather that, as in most things, your perspective will depend on how you were raised.
I was raised always going to one set of grandparents in Purim and erev Yom Kippur, so to me, it's obvious that OPs expectations are correct..
The other set of grandparents lived in a different country, and my mother always put us on the phone to wish them a good year. Now reading this, I feel a pang knowing that my children are missing this vital piece of chinuch, since we live a plane ride away from both sets of grandparents. I am remiss in that I don't I dont insist enough that my kids call their grandparents. .
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amother




Ginger
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 10:53 pm
amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:
But that’s exactly the point. There are ALREADY “rules” on Purim, from G-d Himself, enough rules to last a busy family the entire day, and more.
We’re not putting parents and children on the same level, we’re putting different MITZVAHS on the same level. Mitzvahs that cannot be done any other day of the year.
And I agree with posters calling you out on leaving out your son. It’s unfair to blame all of this on your DIL.

The mitzva of visiting parents on Purim can only be done on Purim. And yes, its a mitzva of kibbud av va'eim.
And while were on the subject, we women have managed to take a beautiful holiday and ruin it by adding so much stress. The excessive MM is what most people focus their day on, and it's totally not necessary. If people would cut down on that, they would find a lot more time and menuchas hanefesh to enjoy the day.
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amother




Ginger
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 10:53 pm
Double post
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amother




Bronze
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 10:54 pm
amother [ OP ] wrote:
That is not true.
I sorry no to the answer That in life we should have ZERO expectations, do what makes us feel right and good and just go with the flow.
There should be rules, no??
Parents and children should be on same level?

As usual My words are taken out of context & thrown back in my face here


You cannot control others. You are not G-d. As long as you hold on to the belief that other people have to think like you, act according to your value system, or even do mitzvos as you understand them--is as long as you will suffer due to trying to control the uncontrollable. I did not say your DIL is right or that I agree or disagree with not visiting parents. I am just saying that all that is in your control is YOU and your emotional reactions. When I said you need to let go and go with the flow and life is imperfect, I meant YOU, in YOUR mindset have the power to be happy and calm or be anxious and controlling. You are allowed to have emotions, but process them on your own, because at the end of the day, you are the one stuck with yourself and your life and feelings. And guess what? Happy calm people attract others. Controlling, anxious, rigid people do not.

No one wakes up thinking "gee, I think I'll try to make people upset today and break rules." No, people are complex and their lives are complex. No matter if Hashem would judge your DIL "right" or "wrong," YOU have no ability to do so. You only hurt yourself when you imagine people are bad intentioned or have bad priorities. People try their best and sometimes you get hurt because you are human and have your own emotional life of baggage.

If your DIL was asking advice, I may advise HER something else. But that is irrelevant to YOU and your reality.
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amother




Purple
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 10:57 pm
amother [ Bronze ] wrote:
You cannot control others. You are not G-d. As long as you hold on to the belief that other people have to think like you, act according to your value system, or even do mitzvos as you understand them--is as long as you will suffer due to trying to control the uncontrollable. I did not say your DIL is right or that I agree or disagree with not visiting parents. I am just saying that all that is in your control is YOU and your emotional reactions. When I said you need to let go and go with the flow and life is imperfect, I meant YOU, in YOUR mindset have the power to be happy and calm or be anxious and controlling. You are allowed to have emotions, but process them on your own, because at the end of the day, you are the one stuck with yourself and your life and feelings. And guess what? Happy calm people attract others. Controlling, anxious, rigid people do not.

No one wakes up thinking "gee, I think I'll try to make people upset today and break rules." No, people are complex and their lives are complex. No matter if Hashem would judge your DIL "right" or "wrong," YOU have no ability to do so. You only hurt yourself when you imagine people are bad intentioned or have bad priorities. People try their best and sometimes you get hurt because you are human and have your own emotional life of baggage.

If your DIL was asking advice, I may advise HER something else. But that is irrelevant to YOU and your reality.


Since op is the one asking advice how about validating her feelings since she feels a little bit hurt?
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amother




Bronze
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 11:00 pm
amother [ Purple ] wrote:
Since op is the one asking advice how about validating her feelings since she feels a little bit hurt?


Sure: Op, your feelings are valid in the sense that if you feel abandoned, sad, lonely, angry, hurt, scared--that is a real emotional experience. This isnt really about right and wrong, its about your emotional experience, which is negative--and always valid. These feelings come from a lifetime of complex patterns, expectations, and weighty experiences. the further back you go to untangle this, the more powerful this will be. I am sorry this is so hard for you.

Feel free to cry, write about it, scream to a therapist, punch a pillow, or anything else you need to do to express this emotion. Try to figure out where it came from. When you release your feelings, you will gain perspective and clarity and turn to a place of love and acceptance and not care about the right and wrong part of this anymore. Hatzlacha.
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amother




Vermilion
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 11:02 pm
Delete
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amother




Purple
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 11:03 pm
amother [ Vermilion ] wrote:
You're nuts.



I agree!!!!
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amother




Bronze
 

Post  Wed, Mar 11 2020, 11:13 pm
amother [ Purple ] wrote:
I agree!!!!


haha. I didn't make this approach up. Its based on DBT and The Work from Byron Katie https://thework.com/

if it doesn't speak to you leave it. but it can be liberating for many people.

I am not a therapist, just a person with an imperfect life that has learned to focus on what I can do for myself and my own mindset--not try to change imperfect or sick people around me.
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